Thursday 5 / 21 / 09

David’s first show on Rumor Mill News was an instant classic — bursting with amazing new material — and now you can read the full transcript and study it in greater detail!


First off, I do want to thank all of you for wishing me well and offering suggestions for the improvement of my health. It did mean a lot to me and I very much do appreciate it. Other than an unfortunate neck tightness that developed yesterday, and should have cleared up in time for the show, I’m doing very well.

This most recent illness was as intense as any I’ve ever had, including the mononucleosis I got in college. In fact, I can never remember having cluster migraine headaches as intense as what I just went through. It seemed correlated with mineral overload to the kidneys — once I decreased the amount of supplements I was taking, drank more water and switched from mineral salt to regular hot water baths, the headaches quickly abated.

I consider it likely that I actually did experience some variant of ‘swine flu’, because I caught it directly after shooting video footage at a crowded, dusty and moldy steel factory in downtown LA. We were forced to touch common surfaces in order to use the restroom, which was in the non-abandoned part of the building, as there was only one option for the entire site — and I also ate a tuna salad the staff ordered for me from a local vendor.

Lots of positives are happening and that’s where the focus must rest. Thanks to the terrific groundswell of support we had from new investors, some of whom have already sent in their share, we are now on track to sign a very prominent screenwriter, whose films we all know and love, to bring CONVERGENCE to its fully-realized state.

Another thing I’m very grateful for is that with this writer on board we can veer even farther away from anything approaching ‘formulaic’, including the idea that there must be mortal physical peril to the characters throughout the film — i.e. classifying it in the ‘thriller’ genre.

This story may very well be told best through an internal character struggle, akin to the quest for scientific and spiritual truth, more than a thriller involving a chase — we are now brainstorming other ways in which we can convey the information, inspire and uplift audiences now that we are about to have a true Michelangelo on staff.

In the past our script readers constantly bludgeoned me with the idea that we needed “more conflict, more peril, more jeopardy,” and thus the stakes kept having to be risen higher and higher for the main characters — but once you have someone like this writer on board, all bets are off. I am very, very grateful for that.


We had a few unexpected ‘plot twists’ for this weekend as well. It turns out that the hotel does not have a large-enough restaurant to accommodate a conference of the size we have. We were offered banquet service but had waived it, not realizing there was no other option because of the small restaurant and the fact that we are actually in a fairly remote area. Other than JFK Airport there isn’t a whole lot going on in the vicinity.

We just resolved this issue as of this morning, and they can still do a great job for us even on such short notice. That was a major relief.

So, if you’re going to this weekend’s conference, when you arrive on Friday you’ll want to pay in advance for the meals you will elect to have. It can be added to your room fees if you’re staying at the hotel or paid at the front desk otherwise.

It will be banquet-style dining, on-site, which will keep the group together and networking during break times, and everyone will be able to participate if they choose. The rates we have been quoted so far seem very reasonable, and more affordable than the typical fare on the menu.

Another issue we discovered, once we got on-site, is that the room I will be speaking in is long and narrow, with a conventional-height ceiling. For this reason it will be best to go with a more interactive lecture format where I walk around the room, so that people in the back don’t feel that they’re always away from the action.

Such a long, narrow room with a relatively low ceiling also means that a majority of people will not have a very good view of any Power Point slides. Again, circumstance dictates that at least some of the talk will use slides anyway, but I’m also going to structure the talk so that it is less reliant upon visuals and more interactive.

We do have a great sound system, and this certainly will be the debut of songs from Wanderer Awakening in a live context — so it is a historic event no matter how you look at it. I am definitely looking forward to it!

I don’t want to leave this site unattended while I’m gone, so now seems like a good time to post the transcript from my first appearance on Rayelan’s show, which has been widely praised as one of my all-time best. I hope you enjoy it!

Many, many thanks to our all-volunteer transcription team for making this possible, and to you, the reader, for continuing to support the health and vitality of this site by checking out our wonderful products.



The beautiful melodies and inspiring content of Wanderer Awakening is starting to make the rounds on the Internet, as this following link reveals:

Due to my illness, I haven’t had time to ‘audit’ all the videos people are making — you are entitled to use up to six songs in your own videos if you purchase Wanderer Awakening. Nonetheless, many people have considered “Do You Really Love Me” to be perhaps our biggest ‘hit’ song of all — and now someone has made a very nice video out of it.

You can click on the above link to see it, and the comments people are leaving, or watch the video directly right here:



We are glad that you are expressing your creative voice and using these songs to help inspire others!




Orders for Wanderer Awakening have picked up as people are starting to ‘get’ what we’ve really accomplished here — a marvelously orchestrated, masterfully executed ‘metaphysical musical’ that offers incredible insights into the problems we all face, spells out precisely how to reach ‘enlightenment’ through our most difficult life issues, and peels back the curtain to show a direct bridge between the world of the living and the world beyond.


David Wilcock –

Rumor Mill News Radio

Interview with Rayelan Allan

February 13, 2009

Part 1


Rayelan Allan (RA): You are listening to Rumor Mill News Radio on the Micro-Effect Radio Network. This is Rayelan Allan and I am here with my co-host Dr. Robin Falkov. Our very, very special guest today is David Wilcock.

Dr. Robin Falkov (Dr. RF): Good morning, David. Good morning, Rayelan.

RA: Good morning, Robin. It‘s our pleasure today to have you with us, David.

David Wilcock (DW): Well, it‘s a pleasure to be here.

Dr. RF: Thank you, thank you. This is very special for all the followers of our show and our Rumor Mill News audience and I‘m trying to think as I‘m talking here how to best introduce you.

After knowing you for I guess about nine years now, ten years almost, I think what I have found so impressive is your intense focus to detail and scrupulous searching for diverse areas that will have such exciting information that nobody finds — It‘s not in the mainstream media.

And this is a whole separate area from the many things you‘re well known for — and soon to be even better known for if I can mention that I heard your lovely voice on Coast Friday night.

DW: (laughs)

Dr. RF: I thought that was very well done.

DW: Thank you.

Dr. RF: I didn‘t expect anything different, though. But for our audience now, they need to know that you‘re a professional lecturer. You have your wonderful film project in the works — that‘s something we‘re all looking forward to. You will be appearing at the Conscious Life Expo this weekend. Gosh — it is this weekend!

DW: Yeah, I don‘t speak until Sunday. I was going to go today but because I‘ve been a little bit sick I‘m probably not leaving until tomorrow.

Dr. RF: Okay.

DW: Yeah.

Dr. RF: Yes. I know that will be quite a big event. You have large audiences.

DW: Oh yeah. I really recommend anybody listening who‘s going and they‘re not there yet, get there in advance. We had lines that made it like half an hour late by the time I got started because people waited so long just to get in the door.

Dr. RF: Yeah. I remember.

DW: Yeah. We had to move the whole audience three times and have everybody‘s seat moved. It was high drama.

Dr. RF: And what time are you speaking on Sunday? I don‘t have the program open.

DW: Well, give me just a second. Why don‘t you keep reading that and I‘ll pull it up and I can give you that.

Dr. RF: Okay, well David‘s new film is called “Convergence ” and this unveils the proof that all life on Earth is united in a field of consciousness which of course affects our own minds in fascinating ways. And many of you are familiar with David‘s work and the book “The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce ” which explores the remarkable similarities between David and Edgar.

Previously David has done psychic readings and one-on-one readings, which he does not do anymore.

DW: Thank you for saying that part. (laughs)

Dr. RF: Yes. Don‘t barrage him with email! What I would like to do while you‘re searching which I think is…

DW: Oh, I have it now.

Dr. RF: Okay. What I was just going to do… because much of our audience is listening to you on the radio and we don‘t know if they have internet connections. So if you would like to reach David, I‘ll give you his contact information.

David‘s contact information is PO Box 249, 4872 Topanga Canyon Blvd., Woodland Hills, California 91364. Okay. We got that out of the way.

DW: The box is 249 and then the address is 4872 Topanga Canyon. So you don‘t want to put all that on the same line.

Dr. RF: Ah. Okay. So…

DW: Here‘s what I‘m going to be doing at the Conscious Life Expo. It‘s all starting on Sunday, February 15th. Beginning at 2 – 4 pm I‘m going to be on a Prophecy Panel hosted by our own George Noory. And that‘s going to feature John Hogue, the Nostradamus guy; Dannion Brinkley, who‘s always a great source of entertainment; Sean David Morton, the eternal character and remote viewing guy; Daniel Munoz, who‘s an expert on the Mayan prophecies; and then I will be on there as well.

That‘s 2-4 pm at the Expo. You pay an initial fee to get in the door. And I think this event also has a fee associated with it. I‘m not sure. I think it‘s $20, but don‘t quote me on that.

Then I have a Keynote Workshop from 6 – 7:30 called “The Science of 2012: Dud, Disaster or Divine? ” That is an overview of the case. I will be putting out some very intense, hard-hitting information about 2012 being sort of a moment of quantum shift in consciousness and perhaps even energy and biological evolution for our planet.

It‘s a very rapid presentation of slides. The only risk I run is in overwhelming people with the speed of the information coming through. But you will get a really nice distilled package of it there.

Then I have to run over… literally. That event ends at 7:30 and everybody‘s going to want to talk to me. But I have to run over to the Giant Plaza Room by 8:00, which is just half an hour after I‘m over to speak on a free 2012 Panel which anybody can walk in once they‘ve just paid the gate fee at the door. And that 2012 panel is called “A Quantum Leap into the Unknown. ”

Sean David Morton is hosting it. I find that he does a really good job with that. And that‘s going to have Dannion Brinkley, Jack Allis, Ron Amitron, Carole Friesen, and myself.

This is almost the same group of people that I did the 2012 Panel with last year. In the beginning it was a little rough going last year, but by the time it was over we got some harmonic consensus in terms of what everybody was thinking. It actually turned out really well.

Then I have a post-conference event on Monday from 1 – 4, so it‘s twice the length of the one I‘m doing the day before. That‘s called “2012 Enigma: Science, Prophecy and Transcendence. ”

The difference between that event and the other one is, first of all, you‘re going to get a lot more depth of data. Second of all, I lead the audience through a visionary, meditative experience in which you get to have a first-hand experiential knowing of the consciousness field of the meditative state that brings you in touch with your true identity.

That will involve, among other things, group toning where everybody chants a certain tone. And we have really, really powerful experiences people report when they do this. Because when you get a large group of people together and they focus their intent on something like this, the whole room becomes a big consciousness amplifier.

We could talk a lot more about how that works because I know, Robin, one of the things you want to do is ask me about some of the Russian physics stuff.

Dr. RF: Definitely.

DW: When you have a crowd of people you have an amazing opportunity, if you know what you‘re doing, because you can harness the energy that they all are putting out and get some very profound effects in the room that wouldn‘t be possible normally.

Dr. RF: Richard and I experienced that in Tempe. You did that with the group in Tempe.

DW: That‘s right, at the Secrets Conference.

Dr. RF: Yep.

DW: Yeah. I‘m doing that one again this coming year. It‘s funny, but more and more wherever I go it‘s like they‘re rolling me out in front. I‘m doing the International UFO Congress in Laughlin, Nevada, and they‘re having me as the main speaker on Saturday — the last speaker before the conference is over.

I guess the reason why this keeps happening is that I‘m synthesising a lot of data together, just like Richard does — Richard Hoagland, your partner — and in that sense I‘m… And Rayelan, you and I spoke on the phone for how long was that? Three or four hours?

RA: Six hours. Can you believe that?

DW: It was six hours?

RA: It was six hours. (laughs) And it went by in a flash, didn‘t it?

DW: Yeah. I didn‘t even realize it was that long. But it‘s funny… because I‘ve been on the internet since 1995; December 1995 was the first time I got a computer… and I think your website was around almost from the beginning, from what I can remember.

RA: Yes it was. I was on Conspiracy Nation up until 1998.

DW: Okay.

RA: And then on 1998. Yes. I was one of the very first ones. I actually didn‘t start Rumor Mill until ‘96.

DW: ‘96. Right. That was when I really got active, was the beginning of ‘96.

RA: You know, David, I‘ve just got so many questions, I know Robin does, too, and there are so many videos on YouTube and various other places. Robin, did you want to finish with your questions before I start?

DW: Ray, I just wanted to say one other thing, and that is to kind of finish the thought about the difference and the similarity with you and Hoagland. Why I think you guys are working together is that — although I‘m new to your work — you definitely have the legacy of being on-line for that long and you‘ve built a huge following.

When I spoke to you, I realized — and I want my listeners to know this. A lot of the people that are going to hear this show are not normal guests of yours, and so I want them to know that I was extremely impressed with the breadth of your knowledge.

I do believe you are an authentic whistleblower who has some very high-level information which corroborates a lot of things that I know. You also give testimony that, as far as I can tell, is essentially unique in terms of some of the pieces that you have that no one else has but very clearly fit in with other things that I‘ve already seen.

Our partnership is really just getting started and this is only the second time that we‘ve spoken, so I‘m very excited to be doing this.

Dr. RF: Thank you, David, because Rayelan is very special. Her work is very special and I came across it years ago myself and it is so comprehensive.

Those who explore the Rumor Mill News website have to understand that for twelve years this site has been a place where you can find all perspectives, research, presented — all the stuff that you‘re not going to get in the mainstream media and the other sites. This is not restricted. If somebody has a difference of position from what Ray believes, they have the freedom to publish it, as long as it‘s done in the proper way.

DW: It looks to me… I only really looked at the website today in the process of writing an article that I‘m going to post today on my website pretty soon after we get off the air here. In looking at your website, Ray, I saw that it really is kind of like the alternative media equivalent of the Huffington Post. Just in terms of the depth of data that‘s there and how many people and…

RA: It‘s amazing, because people have referred to me as the “Alternative ” Huffington Post. I‘ve actually been referred to that way in the mainstream media.

DW: Really? How about that.

RA: What is really amazing is that Arianna was given seven million dollars to start that. I started mine on my salary as an English teacher.

DW: Oh my gosh.

RA: (laughs) My dedication has been to truth, not to money. But you know, we all need money to survive, and even this radio show needs money to survive. So people, please understand that. We‘re not being brought to you for free. Somebody‘s paying. And until I get advertisers, it‘s me.

Dr. RF: I‘d like the audience to know what they can do to help out. There are chip-in buttons and PayPal buttons on your website, and they can arrange for monthly donations. It can be a dollar a month and that would make a world of difference. And that will entitle them to a lot of special perks coming up, such as access to shows like David‘s for download, and many guests that will be coming and the wonderful guests you‘ve had in the past three months.

RA: Well, you know, Robin and David, there‘s something else that you don‘t know about me. I had an identical show like this, “One Step into the Light, ” on the Monterey Peninsula in the mid ‘80‘s. I have all of those tapes, and eventually they‘re all going to be archived. I‘ve got interviews with Ram Dass and Joseph Campbell and … In other words, I‘ve done interviews with all of the top people of that day.

Dr. RF: Oh, how fabulous!

RA: Many are dead now. And so it‘s going to be an amazing thing when I eventually get it up.

DW: Well, I‘ve put a lot of my public support and political support behind Project Camelot because I‘ve seen them as doing a valiant service, which is filming a lot of UFO whistleblower and Black Ops whistleblower guys and putting it out there for people to see.

I‘ve heard about you from time to time, but I only discovered your work recently as a result of Robin basically wanting me to be on the show. I‘m very impressed. So I would just again encourage everybody to realize that, from my own discernment, you have some singularly valuable testimony.

I‘d like us to kind of jump in and let‘s start talking about some of this stuff so that we can get to the meat.

RA: And well, of course I‘m so interested in how you began. I mean, you began at age two. I mean, there are very few people who have a memory all the way back to age two. I know I‘m one who does, but I rarely meet anybody else who has a memory back to age two.

DW: I‘m two years older than my brother and I clearly remember my mother showing me her pregnant stomach and saying that I have a brother on the way. I remember holding her stomach. It‘s very clear. (laughs)

RA: Also you had dreams about massive metallic cylinders floating in the sky.

DW: Yeah.

RA: What did you ever figure out that those were?

DW: You have to understand, part of this was inspired by real-world events. I did live near a military base and there were very, very large C130 Hercules transport aircraft that would fly over my back yard at a pretty darn low altitude. I mean, sometimes the whole house would shake, you know. So these were colossal aircraft when you see them that up-close.

But what I have to say is that there is a big difference between what a C130 looks like when you see it over your head and what was happening in my dreams. I was always blown away when I saw these in real life, but in my dreams they didn‘t look like that.

In my dreams there were no wings. They were just tubes. They were shiny bright metallic in color and they also had this sort of fluttering movement as they travelled through the air, similar to like what you would expect from a dragonfly or an insect.

RA: Do you know, that reminds me of some of the ancient drawings from the Hindu religion. Do you know what I‘m talking about, David?

DW: Sure. The Hindu scriptures including, they talked about the vimana.

RA: Exactly. Well, I have seen pictures of them and they‘re just these long cylindrical things which float very, very slowly through space.

DW: When you‘re dealing with a gravity-shielding technology, one of the basic principles of that technology is that… Our gravity is actually a push-pull between two opposing forces — and this is one of the great secrets that most people are not aware of.

Gravity is the result of energy flowing into the Earth to create the Earth. It‘s actually a fluid-like energy that‘s all around us in the universe which creates physical matter by its vortex flow. And so, the larger an object is, the more energy is going to flow into it. But also, a great deal of the energy that flows into it as clean and fresh energy, then exhales simultaneously as the end result, the spoiled energy, so to speak, where it has to be reabsorbed.

So there‘s a combination of gravity, which is basically the energy that is pushing down into the Earth from outer space, and levity, which is the energy coming back up out of the Earth to be reabsorbed. There‘s a tug-of-war between those two forces, and the gravity force only slightly wins out over the levity force.

You can actually alter the properties of physical matter so as to either make it more opaque to the gravity force, or to make it more shielded to the levity force. What happens in so doing is that you still get the forces. They‘re not always totally even, and so you get a little bit of a jittering movement or a wobbling movement when you have anti-gravity.

RA: That‘s just what I was going to say. You‘re talking about the anti-gravity machines.

DW: Yeah.

RA: Of course many people think that the Germans did discover that. We don‘t have any proof of that, but many people do believe that.

DW: Viktor Schauberger‘s work certainly was a step forward in that direction.

RA: Yes. But going forward in your life… At age five you had a spontaneous out-of-body experience. What did that feel like to you?

DW: It was unlike anything that‘s happened before or since. I think being such a smart kid… I already, when I was like two/three years old, I was already reading and writing, and so by the time I got into kindergarten and I was five years old, they had to put me two grades ahead in my reading level in order to keep me satisfied and not just ace every test with straight 100s.

RA: Yes.

DW: So I was already pretty knowledgeable and well composed as a person by the time I was five.

I woke up one night and I couldn‘t feel the bed under me. I just put my hand down and my hand went way too far down below where my body was. Then I turned over and I saw my own body sleeping in my bed and it seemed like it was alive. It was breathing, and yet here I was up there.

The strangest part was that I still seemed to be wearing the same pair of pyjamas that I had on in bed. They had red cuffs, and the rest of the pyjamas were yellow.

RA: Uh huh.

DW: In fact, I never washed those pyjamas again or wore them again…

RA: Ha ha ha.

DW: … because they became sacred. What I realise now is that we carry the bio-image of our clothes, and the matter that makes those clothes also has a higher vibration that our astral body picks up on. Thus our astral body will at this early stage carry the imprint of whatever we‘re wearing in our physical body.

The bottom line is that I started to fly feet-first down the hallway at a very slow, deliberate speed. The light was on in the hallway because I didn‘t want to sleep in the dark. I turned 90 degrees as I reached the stairwell and my body tipped up on about a 30-degree angle and began gliding down the stairs right beneath the ceiling.

RA: Oh my gosh.

DW: I started freaking out at this point because I‘m thinking… because even prior to this point I had this distinct sense that there was a group of, I guess you could say “people ” who were watching me as I went through this, and monitoring me to see how I was reacting.

It didn‘t seem scary. But there was definitely a “professional ” approach to it like: “We‘re really interested in what‘s going to happen. What‘s he gonna do? ”

And so, I‘m floating down the stairs and I‘m realizing: “Wow! I am definitely going somewhere and I‘m not going to stay in the house too much longer. And as soon as I‘m out of the house, I‘m going to be in outer space. And as soon as I‘m in outer space or above the Earth — that‘s death. That‘s me flying out of my body and I‘m not coming back! And even though my body‘s alive now, if I go too far away I could die. ”

So all of a sudden I totally freaked out and I snapped back into my body and I woke up with a start — and there was absolutely no difference.

That‘s not what I meant to say…

There was absolutely no way that this could have been a dream. There was no difference between this out-of-body experience and normal waking reality. It was exactly the same, as if I was awake and floating down the hall.

RA: Well, when you woke up in the morning, did you tell people about it?

DW: Yeah. I did. I told my mother and my father and I also told Mrs. Demassey my kindergarten teacher. Everybody except my mother, including Mrs. Demassey, basically laughed at me and said: “Oh, you just had a dream. ”

RA: Right.

DW: … and kind of patted me on the back and said: “Oh, you‘re such an amusing child, ” you know. And my mother said: “That‘s very interesting. ”

And so two years later… this is what segues into the fact that two years later I had since wished that I hadn‘t been afraid, because I was having all these UFO dreams in which cosmic beings were appearing in front of me.

RA: And were you on the UFOs in the dreams?

DW: Yeah! Oh yeah.

RA: I think you probably were out-of-body and on them, don‘t you?

DW: It‘s very likely. It‘s sometimes hard to tell the difference.

RA: Exactly. I know.

DW: After I saw Star Wars, I know that the being that I was talking to became Obi Wan Kenobi. Your dreams will often do that; they‘ll use symbols that your mind can identify because they‘re comfortable.

RA: Yes.

DW: So I had multiple dreams in which I would meet with Obi Wan Kenobi in a very, very futuristic spacecraft that was quite huge, and either there would be windows that looked out into the stars …

RA: Oh my gosh! I was just talking about that yesterday on the air.

DW: Really.

RA: I go to that ship.

DW: Ha ha.

RA: (laughs) You see, you and I haven‘t compared notes on this part!

DW: No. There‘s a lot of stuff like that out there, I‘m sure.

RA: I think so.

DW: The bottom line is that he kept telling me that I was here for a purpose, that I had a reason to be here. He would say that there was something really, really profound and wonderful that was going to happen to the Earth in my lifetime, that almost no one on Earth was aware that it was going to happen, that it was much more fantastic than they thought it would ever be, and it was akin to science fiction.

In other words, most people could never even believe it, even if you told them what was going on.

RA: Right.

DW: And he said that I was going to have a pivotal role in helping people understand that this was going to happen. But he also said that I would not remember most of what I needed to know until the event got close, and that I would only remember things in bits and pieces, and I would learn more and more as it got closer and closer.

But basically, he said that: “For the next few years you‘re not going to be able to remember very much and so you‘re just going to have to be patient. ” Then I would have a hard time remembering these dreams when I woke up, too.

RA: Well, my gosh, you were only what? Seven/eight years old?

DW: Yeah. This was around seven. Six. These dreams began around the age of five and continued for two years. I finally got to the point where I said: “Okay ” — after two years of this – “Okay, I‘m meeting these cosmic beings. I‘m having these amazing dreams with UFOs in them and all this stuff ”– and I didn‘t even know what UFOs were for a long time.

RA: Of course.

DW: And I said: “Okay. Obviously the out-of-body experience was the whole key and I messed up. That was the only time that they were really trying to take me somewhere and if I had just lost the fear, then I would have really gone there. It wouldn‘t just be a dream. It would be the real thing. ”

So now I felt like my quest was that I had to have another out-of-body experience. I had to get back out there again and go wherever I was supposed to go. Because I felt that would be the real thing. That would not be a dream.

After two years of wishing and praying that I would have another OBE and not having it happen, in a sense of desperation I went to my mother and explained the entire thing to her. I said: “Look, remember when I told you two years ago that I floated out of my body and I went down the stairs and then I got scared and I snapped back in my body? (yeah, yeah).

“Well, I need to find out how to get that to happen. Is there anything I can do? Are there any exercises I can practice or anything that I can do to make that happen? ”

RA: I have to ask this question.

DW: Okay.

RA: Years later, has your mother ever told you what she thought of her seven-year-old asking that of her?

DW: Well, yes. She was very surprised by me. One of the things which is kind of a personal family story is that I came up to her right before my brother was going to be born. Now, this is a two-year-old. A lot of two-year-olds don‘t even have much of a verbal ability.

RA: Yes.

DW: And as a two-year-old, I came up to my mother and said something to her to the effect of: “It saddens me that my brother is about to be born because I know that the relationship that you and I have is never going to be the same, and you‘re going to have to share your love equally with him as you have been with me now. ”

RA: Oh my god! What a thing …

DW: And she ran off into the other room and cried for hours.

RA: Oh, of course she did.

DW: (laughs)

RA: Is she still alive?

DW: Oh yeah.

RA: Oh my god. She must be so amazed that she is your mother, because you truly are an amazing person.

DW: She had some guidance that came in before I was born that I was going to have a very important role to play, and she always knew that.

Dr. RF: That‘s what I wanted to ask you. What were your mother‘s experiences?

RA: I can hear the music. We‘re just about ready to take a break. And I want to come back to where you were at age seven when your mother, I think, gave you a book. Is that what happened?

DW: That‘s correct. She directed me to a whole library of books under the cellar stairs.

RA: Under the cellar stairs!

DW: (laughs)

RA: Oh my god. (laughs) That‘s great. That‘s a great place to end.

DW: Isn‘t it.

[RA: Folks this is Rumor Mill News radio, on the micro effect radio network, Dr. Robin Falkov and I are interviewing David Wilcock and if you‘re as fascinated as I am, well we‘ll be right back.

RA: This is Rumor Mill News radio on the micro effect radio network.]

[advertisements 23 – 33:40]

RA: This is Rayelan and I‘m here with Dr. Robin Falkov, my co-host for today, and the two of us are interviewing David Wilcock. And let me tell you, it really takes two people to interview David Wilcock!

DW: (laughs)

RA: (laughs) Because, David, I want to talk about one thing and I know Robin wants to talk about the other. I am just so interested in how people like you are born, how they grow up and how they really blossom and become what they become.

And so at age seven — at age seven — I mean, just imagine this! Imagine what you were doing, listeners, at age seven. At age seven he goes to his mother and says: “This is what‘s been happening to me ever since that out-of-body experience ” — which I‘m sure you didn‘t call it an OBE — and your mother takes you down and shows you the books in the cellar. Is that what happened?

DW: I basically said: “I floated out of my body two years ago and I want to get another chance because I think I‘m going to go somewhere really important. How do I get that to happen? Are there any exercises I can do that will allow me to do that? ”

And she said: “Well, this is one of the things that falls under the umbrella of what they call ESP or Extra-Sensory Perception and I have books in the basement on ESP and you‘re welcome to read any of them that you like. ”

So she took me down to the basement and underneath the cellar stairs there was a rack of about, I guess there was three shelves worth of books that she had accrued. Some of them were science fiction stuff, but there was a fairly large percentage of them that were metaphysical or occult in some way in nature.

The one that really jumped out at me obviously said ESP on the spine, and she had just been saying that this was ESP, so I naturally grabbed that one. I also was particularly gravitated towards books on hypnosis. It felt like hypnosis was important.

So I read two books on hypnosis and a book on ESP, among several other things that didn‘t catch my attention as much. But the ESP book is the one. It‘s called “How to Make ESP Work for You ” by Harold Sherman and in fact it‘s still an excellent resource for people who want to develop their psychic ability.

RA: What year was this, if you don‘t mind me asking?

DW: It was 1980.

RA: 1980. Okay. So all of that…

Dr. RF: I have something very important, Ray and David. It‘s a big responsibility for parents that have special children. And the way things are put in place now, if a parent was to report back to the child‘s pediatrician that their child is having these experiences, they would recommend that the child be put on drugs. You know, there‘s a whole spectrum of very dangerous drugs for young people. And the goal is to shut down these experiences and these awarenesses and have everybody fit in and be one of a group.

When — if there‘s a parent listening — when you have a special child, be very cautious. Just because it‘s outside of your awareness or comfort zone, do a little bit of research. You can see that your child is doing well in every area and give them the space to explore and don‘t shut them down. And by all means don‘t put them on drugs! Don‘t sign any forms for mandatory testing, because otherwise that choice is no longer there and the drugs will be forced upon your child.

DW: And many of those pharmaceuticals have a dampening effect on psi ability. You‘re not gonna get the same stuff happening if you go on those chemicals.

RA: And starting in the ‘80‘s we got this influx of what we call the indigo children. I mean children coming in with abilities that are just amazing people. And I‘m absolutely certain a lot of these children have been totally destroyed because of the Ritalin that they‘ve been put on…

DW: I would agree.

RA: …before people really realized what was happening to them.

Dr. RF: The Ritalin and the ridicule.

RA: Yes, the Ritalin and ridicule. Exactly. So David, you were very, very lucky to have a mother like you have. I hope you thank her every day.

DW: Oh, I do! I would just propose that on one level it‘s luck and on another level it was a very carefully designed choice of who I was going to incarnate with as parents.

RA: And that was the next question! (laughs) You read my mind.

Dr. RF: That‘s what many children will report back, how carefully they chose their parents.

RA: Yes. But David, many people think you are the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce… and because of my connections with the Cayce family, and literally my life was saved by the grandson of Edgar Cayce‘s doctor or I wouldn‘t be…

DW: I remember you telling me that.

RA: I wouldn‘t even be here today. So I‘m very interested in knowing if your mother… where she fits into your past lives?

DW: That is an interesting question, because my father is definitely Cayce‘s father. There‘s an astonishing facial similarity.

RA: It is so amazing.

DW: Cayce‘s father was called “The Squire. ” My father would only shop at The Squire Shop for his men‘s clothing the whole time I was a kid.

RA: Uh hmm.

DW: Right up and through my teenage years. My brother looks a lot like Dr. Wesley Harrington Ketchum who was the first person to work with Cayce‘s father to get Cayce‘s work out into the mainstream.

RA: Mm hm.

DW: And not only is there an astonishing facial similarity, but covertly Cayce‘s father and Dr. Ketchum were using Cayce‘s readings to bet on horse races.

RA: Oh my gosh!

DW: And my father kept taking us to this place in Schenectady when we were little kids that was like a mafia headquarters. He didn‘t even realize. I mean, my father just doesn‘t see things, sometimes.

Every Sunday it was the same guys standing around pretending to read magazines, with cigars in their mouth, watching this tiny little black and white TV up in the corner of the newsstand with horse races on it.

And Dad would take us in there and we‘d go get these Gold Key Comics — all the Disney comics, like Donald Duck and so forth — and then Harry, the proprietor of the news room, would allow us to pick any candy that we wanted for free. Unfortunately, nobody was eating the candy, so it was very stale a lot of the times. It had been there for years and years and years. In fact some of the candy probably had been there since the ‘50‘s.

RA: Oh my gosh!

DW: There were two funny things that happened that I haven‘t told publicly before. One was: I remember one day that I was picking out candy and I saw Harry spontaneously vomit into a garbage can filled with broken beer bottles — because they‘d throw all the beer bottles in there and break ‘em.

I watched the vomit come out of his mouth, and it really shocked me. Then he acted like nothing had happened when we were talking to him at the register. Of course, all that says is that he could be a severe drinker.

Another key that my father never really put together was, at one point my father had picked out too many magazines. He loved media. He‘d always bag up magazines and newspapers and comic books for us. He‘d have stacks and stacks of ‘em around the house because my father was a journalist and a writer.

He just needed a little bit of money, like maybe $3.00, to pay for the extra magazines he wanted that week. So he asked Harry if he could have some money, and Harry whips out this — I remember this; I was right there — gigantic roll of $100 bills. I mean, it had to have been probably three and a half inches thick! And he‘s just: “Okay, Donny, how much ya need? ” (laughs)

RA: Oh my gosh. Did you ever…

DW: I used to have dreams that people were being tortured in this back room. And there was this scary back room that all it had in it was a chair and a light bulb that was on a wire…

RA: Oh my god!

DW: …and I used to have these horrible dreams that people were being tortured in that room. I never saw anybody go in there, maybe one time. But it turned out that we found out later from sources, let‘s say, that this was a major mafia headquarters. Surprise, surprise.

RA: Surprise, surprise. Exactly.

DW: And that‘s exactly what was going on in that room. People that hadn‘t paid would be tortured.

RA: Aw. Oh god.

DW: But it‘s very interesting, because here you have the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce ostensibly, if this is true, and you have the father… my father and my brother being the reincarnation of the two guys that got Cayce out there booking on horse races.

By the way, when Cayce found out they were using his readings to try to win money — because at the time they had no money — that they were trying to gamble with his readings, he got really upset. Completely broke things off with Dr. Ketchum. Never spoke to him again.

And of course when you do that in your life, you‘re almost guaranteed you‘re going to reincarnate with that person again later on and work things out, which is what happened with me.

Then with my father… of course in that lifetime there was a big divide and we didn‘t talk for a few years, and then we gradually healed the fences again.

RA: And now who is your mother? Where did she fit in?

DW: Well that‘s the funny thing. It does not appear that she was in Cayce‘s life, so therefore we don‘t have anything that‘s directly usable in terms of regular reincarnation research, because Cayce‘s life is the only one that we have any pictures for. Every other incarnation the Cayce readings described is one that we don‘t have any documentation on other than some of the Biblical figures that he was, like King David in the Bible.

RA: Uh huh.

DW: And ostensibly there was some suggestion that I got confirmation on that he had been Pythagoras. The Cayce readings also said that he authored the Book of Luke in the Bible.

RA: Oh amazing! I didn‘t know that.

DW: Yeah. There‘s a book called “The Lives of Edgar Cayce ” by William Church that you can read that gives you all that.

RA: Yes. I think I read that book when I was about ten.

DW: The really fascinating one is, Cayce allegedly oversaw the largest and most complex civil engineering project ever in human history — which of course is the Great Pyramid — and that he did this with the cooperation of non-Earth humans, let‘s say. Non-physical beings.

And so the Cayce readings referred to him as Ra-Ta and said that he was this Atlantean priest who basically led the survivors of the sunken continent to Egypt where they essentially pulled off a bloodless coup with the natives of Egypt and created a whole new social structure which led to the building of the Great Pyramid, among other things.

Ultimately there was a Bill Clinton-type of conspiracy in which the loyal opposition, the Republicans of our time, basically, set him up, set up Ra-Ta (the name of this guy)…

RA: Uh huh.

DW: … where he had to… They convinced him that if he had children with this beautiful temple dancer named Isis that her kids would be really exemplary children. What he ended up doing was going against his own proclamations about monogamy.

RA: Right.

DW: Now, he thought he was in a special position to do that because of who he was and how revered he was, but the Republicans of the day used this against him and basically created the big scandal and got everybody to throw him out.

RA: Uh huh.

DW: There was a group of about, I think they said some 270 people, who went into exile for a prolonged period of time. Eventually Ra-Ta was able to rejuvenate himself using technologies that they had then that we don‘t have now.

He came back looking a lot younger and was ultimately welcomed back as it being a miracle, because people of Egypt had never seen anything like that before. They had never seen an old man become younger looking.

RA: Wow.

DW: And they welcomed him back. Basically for a period of time he had a pretty strong influence, and then he gradually began travelling more and more. They‘ve never really specified whether that was strictly on Earth or not.

I do believe that he also travelled to Mars, because the Cayce readings do refer to some fantastic archaeological discoveries that Ra-Ta made while travelling that convinced him that humans were much more ancient than we thought.

That strongly makes me think that Ra-Ta discovered The Face on Mars and all that kind of stuff, and brought the evidence back to the Atlanteans. There‘s some really good evidence that he did that.

RA: And of course you know that I was taken to Mars in this amazing thing by a four-star admiral that many years later I find out was my husband‘s boss in the CIA.

DW: Yeah. We spoke about your story about that in some length, and I actually do believe your story is credible. There is enough witness testimony out there. A lot of it comes from this one man, Henry Deacon, who I‘ve had somewhere in the neighbourhood of 70 to 100 hours of conversation with. He has convinced me that there is a very elaborate amount of development going on with Mars.

Actually, he said something new. I was just talking to him yesterday. It appears that he‘s not entirely clear whether — when he would go through this portal that would take him from Earth to Mars — he‘s not clear whether it was just a travel in space or if it was also travel in time.

He knows the exact location of some of the bases that he went to and what they looked like at the time that he went there. And yet, when he googled Mars — because now there‘s a Google-Earth for Mars, I guess?

RA: Oh my gosh. I didn‘t know that. I‘m going to have to sign up for that.

DW: When he went, when he looked at the photographs of Mars and got the exact latitude and longitude coordinates of where the base had been, and looked for what he knew should have been there, it wasn‘t there. Or if it was there, it was buried.

RA: From my trip there, it‘s all buried. But the reason I brought this up…

DW: There‘s some high strangeness around all that stuff, and I definitely believe that, from what you‘ve told me of your story, that it‘s authentic.

RA: The reason I bring that up is when I went through the portal on Mars and went back in time, I went back 50,000 years ago, right to that area of Egypt that you are talking about.

DW: Yeah. Very good.

RA: And I believe Ra-Ta was in touch with the people who were the guardians of the portal.

DW: That could very well be.

RA: So all he had to do was walk through the portal — and that particular portal was a time/space portal.

DW: Right.

RA: The little round spacecraft or crafts that I went to Mars in, that was not a time [portal]. That was a space [portal]. I mean, we were in real time.

DW: I got that. Yeah.

RA: But anyway, I think that if you went to Mars, you could have actually been on Mars in its heyday. You know, before its atmosphere was blown away.

DW: It‘s certainly possible. I do think that the thing that people have to understand is the ARE, the Association for Research and Enlightenment, the group that is responsible for Cayce‘s readings — they‘ve made some choices that I don‘t think are really the best choices. Unfortunately I understand why they did it, because, like everyone else, they need to make money to survive.

I think that some of the most sizzling and most important Cayce books, Cayce information, should be open-sourced on the internet.

There‘s 14,000 readings that Cayce did. And of those readings there‘s a larger number than you might ever imagine that dealt specifically with Atlantis. What was happening was a large number of the people that Ra-Ta knew had reincarnated as people that were getting readings from Cayce!

RA: Oh. It makes perfect sense, doesn‘t it?

DW: Yeah. And the amount of data that was coming through in these readings is hyper-complex. This is not something you can easily sort your way through. These readings were done in some cases 10, 15 years apart from each other. And yet, researchers had to meticulously go back and pick through 15 years‘ worth of data, and they found that everything lines up.

In other words, one reading 10 years ago will say something about a particular event. Ten years later a reading from another person gets the same event from their perspective, and all these stories line up.

Cayce wouldn‘t remember anything that he said when he woke up, so the idea that all this is fictional becomes really quite ridiculous.

RA: Well, now, what have you done with ARE? Have you gone back and talked to them and met the family, and things like that?

DW: It‘s a pretty amusing story.

To jump ahead on the timeline, just to fill in the gaps: I went to college, and by the time I got to college I found out that UFOs were real from a physics professor who was the professor of a friend of mine, and that kind of activated me into studying UFOlogy.

I got really into it for about three years while I was also writing my dreams down every morning. I have a 16-year record of daily dream logs that I‘ve been following for their guidance.

RA: Wow.

DW: After three years of very intense research, I was guided to begin listening to this voice that appears in your mind when you wake up in the morning and you can still remember your dream. My colleague, Joe Mason, whose website is called that the dream voice.

I started to do this dream voice work — and all this happened as a result of Richard Hoagland‘s website. It was 1996. He had a forum at the time. It was very, very popular. Art Bell‘s show was in its absolute heyday. He was getting millions and millions of people listening, and there was tons and tons of activity on Hoagland‘s forum. I met Joe Mason there and he ended up calling me on the phone and he told me about the dream voice. The very next morning I woke up and I could hear his voice speaking.

This is the result of — now you‘ve got to remember, I began practicing ESP exercises and really working the exercises ever since I was seven. I was now somewhere around, I guess, 23 years old. So I now had 16 years‘ worth of work into psychic development, plus three years of daily dream-logging. So I knew what I was doing.

I started to write all this stuff down. It became an amazing source of guidance and inspiration for me, which actually began predicting the future with astonishing accuracy, proving that time in a linear sense posed no boundary to the information I was getting.

I‘ve spoken about this in many, many other interviews. There‘s all kinds of wonderful examples. My favorite example of all is when my friend who I was living with, Eric, was told: “You should be happy to know that your student loans for New Paltz have come in. ” And this didn‘t make any sense because he graduated from New Paltz.

So about a month later he walks in the door and he says: “You‘d better sit down for this. ”

I said: “Okay. Go for it. ”

He says: “New Paltz was remodelling the Bursar‘s Office. They pulled a file cabinet away from the wall, one of the last pieces of furniture in the room, and they found that an envelope had fallen behind the file cabinet. The envelope contained an un-cashed Stafford Loan check to me for $900.00 and it‘s still good. ”

RA: Oh my gosh.

DW: We needed $876.00 to pay our rent!

RA: (laughs)

DW: We had no idea where the money was coming from. This reading a month before had said: “You‘ll be happy to know your student loans for New Paltz have come in. ”

RA: That is just amazing.

DW: That‘s just one of any number of stories. You have to understand, I‘m not all about trying to create a hit-list. I‘m not out there trying to prove to people that I‘m psychic. This kind of stuff continues to happen regularly.

RA: Oh, you don‘t have to prove you‘re psychic. I think that‘s already been proved.

And you can hear the music. Folks we‘re talking with David Wilcock. Dr. Robin Falkov and I will be right back because she‘s got a whole other line of questioning she wants to pursue with him.

[And so, hang on, we will be right back on Rumor Mill News Radio on the micro effect radio network.]


David Wilcock –

Rumor Mill News Radio

Interview with Rayelan Allan

February 13, 2009

Part 2


RA: And you‘re listening to Rumor Mill News Radio. This is Rayelan Allan and I am talking with David Wilcock.

And David, I sort of asked you questions that a lot of people wanted to know about you because we didn‘t really hear that in your interviews. But my co-host, Dr. Robin Falkov has all sorts of questions for you. And so if… I think we are finished with what I wanted to know about your childhood. Is there anything else that you wanted to…

DW: Yeah. There was one point that was new that I was building up to…

RA: OK. Great.

DW: … that I want to finish, because we‘ve been discussing the Atlantean material. This actually does tie into Robin‘s questions about the Russian physics.


DW: You have to understand that when you look at pyramids around the Earth, you are seeing … Let‘s just remember now that you‘re not just dealing with the Great Pyramid of Egypt. There‘s a number of pyramids around Egypt. There are also pyramids that have been discovered in the Shensei province of China by Hartwig Hausdorf.

There‘s the recent pyramid that was found, I believe it was Czechoslovakia, that‘s like a giant mountain. It‘s very, very ancient. There‘s all sorts of pyramids in Central and Meso-America, the step pyramids and so forth, and they keep finding more as they look through the jungle.

And these giant earthworks… When you start to look in Britain and Scotland and France, you see a lot of other things besides pyramids but they‘re still the same principle. You see things like Stonehenge and single standing stones. In Ireland you see a lot of towers, like church towers, but they‘re all made of stone and very tall.

And what people don‘t really realize… Ah, there‘s also stone cellars, things called dolmens, where you take groups of large stones and build little houses out of them. And what we don‘t realize is that these are tools that allow us to harness this energy that is conscious.

So we‘re going to go into that in a minute, but in order to finish the point and why I brought up the Atlantean stuff…


DW: There‘s a very intrinsic truth that we need to get to here and that is that Ra-Ta, for his time, brought through a whole lot of information that was spiritual and philosophical in nature by collaborating with this group known as Ra. And so, the Great Pyramid was only an external manifestation of what also involved a large body of philosophical information.

Well, that philosophical information was quickly distorted away from its positive focus and taken in a negative direction. So here‘s how that happened. And this is really important because it actually ties into the Illuminati directly.

What it ultimately appears is that Ra-Ta was essentially the founder of the Illuminati tradition. In the Cayce readings they say that he worked with someone we‘re all familiar with, Hermes, or Thoth. Hermes Trismegistus. So Ra and Hermes, in the Cayce readings, co-designed the Great Pyramid.

Well all of these ancient traditions, Illuminati traditions and so forth, the Masons and so forth, they all tie themselves back to Hermes and to Egyptian mysticism. So you have to understand where that mysticism came from.

Now if the Cayce readings were openly welcomed in our world as being true; if the ARE had done their job and had gotten a lot more of the stuff out on the net so that a lot more people could be reading about it now, then this might be more widely known, but it really isn‘t.

RA: Now I don‘t want you to lose our audience, because most of our audience thinks Illuminati was evil or is evil.

DW: Well, yeah! I mean, in some ways it is. But I‘m trying to explain how this happened. OK?


DW: It started with a positive teaching. And the teaching is essentially the knowledge of how creation works.

The Universe balances positive and negative. There is an allowance for a negative because it inspires movement and growth. So prior to the creation of a negative path, nobody was evolving. And this is philosophical. It‘s not necessarily provable, but this is what we‘re told in various spiritual philosophies.

Once the Universe created a veil between the conscious mind and the super-conscious mind, so that we could then not necessarily know for a fact that we were one with the Creator, the opportunity for a negative path was created.

Originally the idea is that ultimately the negative and positive paths fuse together and they go in a positive direction. That means that… It becomes love with boundaries, is the easiest way to say it. You love everyone as a manifestation of yourself, but you also love yourself enough not to let them take advantage of you.

Now this somehow got distorted by these Egyptian priests, and we‘re talking 9,000 years ago now… OK?…

RA: Hm mm.

DW: …who did their own channeling after the original work came through. And they were channeling the wrong guy.

They brought in all this extra information that added to the original teaching and started to say things like: “Well, if you want to really know God, then you have to fully experience the negative path and the positive path. You have to try out all this negative stuff. Steal money, torture people, you know, enact great crimes. ”

And inadvertently, you know, the original group Ra that was positive had to withdraw and the negative groups took over and basically downloaded all their philosophy. So there is a secret tradition that traces itself back to the pyramid. If you look at the back of the dollar bill you‘ve got the pyramid right there.

RA: Mm mm.

DW: Novus Ordo Seclorum comes from the mystic Sibylline text. There was a psychic, around the time of the Roman Empire, Greek Empire, named Sibyl of Cumae. Cumae was the city and Sibyl was the name of a wise woman. The Sibyls could be in any number of cities and Sibyl of Cumae in particular would write her prophecies down on oak leaves. She just set them out in front of the cave, and if the wind blew ‘em away, then nobody ever read them.

So people would come and collect these leaves, but you never knew exactly where she was going to put them down. In fact, the impact of her prophecies was so strong that pages of a book are still called leaves now.

RA: Oh my gosh. I didn‘t know that that‘s where that word came from.

DW: Yep. Absolutely. So what happened was that three books were bound of her prophecies. And she ultimately realized she had something of value, and she took them to the Roman government. To show that she wasn‘t attached to it — she wanted a large sum of money for the books — when they wouldn‘t give it to her, she burned one of the books right in front of them. She went back again and did it a second time. They wouldn‘t give her the money and she burned another one of the books. Now there‘s only one left.

In the meantime, she was still putting out other leaves – people realizing: “Oh my gosh, this stuff is really, really accurate. ” And so she came with a third book and they actually did pay her the money. And that book became… it was literally considered the most valuable treasure in the entire Roman Empire.

RA: What year are we talking?

DW: This is pre-Christ‘s time.


DW: Like 200 BC, somewhere around there. And I‘d have to have the figures in front of me, but I think it‘s around 197 BC, something like that.


DW: Anyway, these prophecy books that she had – and this is one of the really important things that ties in with all the stuff I‘m talking about, so none of this is a tangent that I‘m getting off-track with.

These books of prophecy gave very, very accurate descriptions of events that had not yet happened in Roman history, and would be astonishingly accurate.

The other problem was that if the Emperors tried to read the prophecies and then manipulate them for self-serving purposes, the prophecies would turn out to have like a “leprechaun wish ” component, where in fact the prophecy would come true exactly as it was written, and the Emperor, in trying to dodge the prophecy by following it, would actually play right into its hands.

So it became considered very, very dangerous for an Emperor to open this book and read the prophecies from it because you may get exactly what you‘re looking for.

Now remember, this is all where the secret Masonic tradition, Illuminati traditions came from, is the Roman Empire. They prized these books very, very highly and they would only read the books in the time of greatest crisis.

Now there are some people that believe that the book very accurately predicted the coming of Jesus and there are some prophecies that indicate that. But what is so interesting for our purposes here today is that the books very, very clearly spell out a prophecy of ascension.

They describe how the Age of Iron will become the Age of Gold. They say – the actual line is: “Favor, chaste Lucina, the boy soon to be born in whom the Iron Age shall come to an end and the Golden One shall arise again in the whole Earth. ”

So when you see on the back of the dollar bill: Novus Ordo Seclorum, that is actually a translation of a longer phrase which is Magnus Seclorum Ordo, which comes from Virgil‘s Fifth Eclogue. The Eclogues of Virgil are translations of the Sibylline text. He actually had access to them and he translated them, transcribed them, and published it. So Virgil‘s Fifth Eclogue is where that comes from.

Magnus Seclorum Ordo is an excerpt from the passage of the book that specifically talks about this ascension that we go through with the planet, in which the whole planet is transformed into, like, a paradise.

So these secret traditions are very well aware that this is where we‘re going. They hold these books and these prophecies as more valuable than anything else they‘ve ever seen.

When they put that on the back of the dollar bill, you see the cap-stone returning to the pyramid. The pyramid — symbolically a six-sided object. The number six means imperfection. When you put a cap-stone on it, there is now not a top anymore — it‘s just a point. So you now only have five sides instead of six. Five is the number of divine perfection.

So what that means is, the pyramid symbol on the dollar bill literally means the perfection of the world. The coming of the great initiate. The coming of the New World Order as they call it, which is, again, a misinterpretation of prophecy.

The original prophecy is talking about an energy shift. But what they‘ve since done is believe that what they have to do is actually create this themselves by enslaving people and forcing the New World Order to happen, which they think is only something that will happen under their divine rule… what they feel is divine rule.

So you can see how there‘s a massive amount of misunderstanding. And also, the fact is that these guys have now realized that 2012 and that whole period of time is the logical fulfillment period for what they were seeing in these prophecies and had been expecting for so long.

So there‘s a great deal of activity going on now. There‘s a great deal of momentum in this time.

RA: And I think some of the questions that Robin has for you right now are going to segue perfectly into a discussion of what you see coming in 2012.

DW: OK. Let‘s do it.

RA: OK, Robin.

Dr. RF: OK. Well. it‘s not quite what David sees coming in 2012.

The information that I find so absolutely intriguing… and I‘m hoping the audience will feel the same way. I can‘t imagine once people hear about your chickens and ducks, David, that anyone will not have their mouth hanging open.

And you know, it calls to mind Arthur C. Clarke‘s Third Law, that “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ”

DW: Right.

Dr. RF: And I think that is the perfect lead-in for you to share this information. And of course it‘s so important to me because it‘s the use of light accomplishing this. So can you please tell us about the chickens and the ducks? Thank you.

DW: Absolutely, absolutely. And this is actually a remarkable segue back into the discussion that I‘ve been building up this whole time. I can see how we can thread this all together very nicely. So let me give you some scientific data, and then I will thread back into this New World Order type of thing we‘ve been talking about.

To understand how the Universe really works, you have to get back to the fact that everything is the Creator. If you want to call it God, you can. There‘s nothing outside of God. God‘s energy, if you will, is intelligent. It permeates the entire Universe. It permeates empty space as well as matter. It is conscious, and it thinks, and it has intelligence.

We would not normally think of physical matter as being unintelligent, but apparently the way in which the large blocks for the pyramids were levitated was by the use of this energy by groups of people who could focus it with consciousness and levitate the blocks, using the intelligence in the rocks to cause that to happen.

Now, again, that sounds really far-fetched, but somehow those blocks had to be levitated. We don‘t have any cranes that could do that even now. There‘s no technology we now possess in the open world that could make these gigantic multi-ton blocks move into position. But yet there they are!

So to really approach the knowledge of this energy you have to really focus in on the idea that physical matter is the same consciousness energy that makes life, but at a lower frequency.

Life is what starts to happen as the energy that makes matter gets increasingly intelligent – organized — in the way that it‘s spiraling together, beginning with single-celled organisms and moving right on up through to human life as we know it.

So even at the level of single-celled organisms. There‘s now research that conclusively demonstrates that you can take ordinary beach sand, heat it up under a Bunsen burner to the point where it‘s white hot, pour it into a sterile test tube with distilled water in it, which is also sterile, and do this in a vacuum so there‘s no way that any germs can get inside. Cap it off and then just let that water cool down and sit in your laboratory for a few days.

What they find is that there‘s this stuff that grows on the top of the tube. And you scrape it off and you look at it under a microscope and it‘s loaded with all these little critters. And of course all the critters have DNA, and the DNA had to come from somewhere. But, again, all you had was sterilized sand in which anything alive would have been completely destroyed, and water which was also sterile.

So the reason why that happens is that the pattern that makes us alive – the pattern that makes life — is written into the background energy of space itself.

In other words, just like you could have a cell-phone conversation, and anywhere that you go you‘re going to de-scramble the voice of your caller through the phone by tuning into that resonance. Or you could have satellite television which all these stations are beaming through empty space. You don‘t ever see them until they‘re tuned in.

It appears that the DNA molecule is merely what happens when these natural spiraling waves in space find the right materials to aggregate together. In other words they just take… The waves are what is really there; the DNA is just an after-effect. The DNA is what happens when the waves find chunks of matter that they can use to make the physical manifestation of their structure with.

So this leads to the idea that life is actually intelligent design, that DNA is a manifestation of this wave that exists all throughout the cosmos, and especially in our galaxy. Our galaxy is designed… the way that it comes out, as well as the sun and the Earth, there‘s a co-creation involved.

Because, you know, when you‘re dealing with conscious energy making the Universe, you can no longer assign stars a dead role. Stars and galaxies become conscious beings in their own right, and in fact are vastly more structured than just a typical human psyche would be.

So there‘s a creation going on here. Intelligent design is ultimately the right choice, but it‘s not creationism like in the Bible sense.

So where this all gets back down to the duck-hen experiment is a particular researcher named Dzang Kangeng… And there‘s two different ways you can spell his last name. You have to google both of them to find all the data. One is K-A-N-G-E-N-G, and the other one is K-A-N-C-H-Z-H-E-N.  Kanchzhen. [Tszyan Kanchzhen] It‘s just an unfortunate thing that they‘re spelled both ways. But look for that, and then use the word “duck ” and you‘ll find him.

What he did was, he took a duck and put it under a parabolic domed roof in a little room with five sides. The domed roof had a mirror in it. OK? And then the five-sided room had funnels built into each wall, so there‘s five funnels in the room. These are just open funnels that air would go through. Then on the funnels he put copper piping. So you have the air that can travel from where the duck is breathing, through the copper piping, and all five of these copper pipes are then redirected into another room which is separate.

Inside that room you have a chicken. And the chicken has eggs that are already fertilized in its womb that are getting ready to be hatched. So then what he does is he turns on a microwave generator and he basically nukes the duck in the chamber with the 2 gigahertz electrostatic signal of microwaves.

This is not enough to kill the duck, but what it does is that it is basically activating the duck‘s DNA and triggering the resonance of the DNA, much like striking a tuning fork would do, and thus releasing that vibration into the ensuing electrostatic energy that it generates.

That electrostatic energy is then being redirected through the tubes into the adjacent room where the chicken is.

Now of course anybody can say: “Oh, well, I don‘t believe it. ” But the fact is we have photographs now of what came out of the chicken. What do you guys think that might be? Well, Robin you already know the answer, but…

RA: Well, I‘m going to say a duck came out.

DW: There‘s another experiment where that‘s how it happens, but in this case they‘re half duck, half chicken.

RA: Oh my gosh!

DW: Yes.

RA: And you‘ve got pictures of those somewhere?

DW: Yeah, we do. I only got ‘em very recently. I haven‘t actually publicized this yet but I now have the photographs of what these little guys look like. They look like chickens more or less. They‘re brown feathers. They still have a little red top on the top of the head, like you‘d expect on a chicken.

RA: Hm mm.

DW: But the beak is definitely longer than a chicken‘s beak. You can totally see that in the picture, and the neck looks really, really weird. You know, chickens have very short necks.

RA: Yes.

DW: Ducks have very large necks.

RA: Yes.

DW: This thing looks like a chicken but it‘s got this really crazy funky neck that‘s like a swan neck. OK? And then you look down at the feet. Chickens‘ feet are supposed to have naked toes. In other words, there‘s no webbing between the toes. You just get these bird feet…

RA: Right.

DW: …whereas a duck has webbed feet. Well, this duck-hen creature has webbing between its toes! The second picture that I have of it is an up-close view of just the feet, where you can see the webbing between the toes. It‘s an astonishing set of photographs. Because it‘s the proof that we needed to actually…

I‘ve been talking about this for years and years and years. Finally somebody at one of my conferences had gotten access to photographs of the experiment. What we ultimately need to do — even though it sort of borders on animal abuse, you know — we do need to replicate the experiment just for the sake of the skeptics out there.

I think it can be done in ways that are less harmful, and the way to do that is this experiment by Gariaev which is the salamander-frog. So let me mention that one because that‘s where you were going, Rayelan.

You take a salamander‘s embryo and you shine a non-burning laser light through it. You then redirect that beam with the salamander‘s DNA frequency, into a frog‘s egg with the embryo inside.

The frog‘s embryo somehow completely reorganizes the DNA. The DNA itself breaks up like a bunch of little jigsaw-puzzle pieces, but instead of there only being only one solution to the jigsaw-puzzle which is: Go make a frog, these puzzle pieces rearrange into a completely new solution which says: Go make a salamander. The exact cells that came out of that frog‘s body completely reorganize into salamander cells and form what grows into an adult salamander. It‘s astonishing.

RA: It is astonishing. David, do you remember me telling you about the admiral when he put his hand on the wall and opened the elevator?

DW: I do remember that. Yeah.

RA: And I said: “Oh, well, did it read your palm print? ” And he said: “No, it read my DNA. ”

DW: There had to be something about – there had to be sweat on the hand.

RA: Well, that was the way I took it, but I actually talked to somebody who knows a little bit about it. And he said: “No, there doesn‘t have to be sweat on the hand. It‘s actually reading the DNA. ”

DW: Right. The energy of the live DNA. Yeah.

RA: Right.

DW: That totally makes sense.

Dr. RF: And can I ask you if you would post those images on your site and then we can link to them from Rumor Mill?

DW: Sure. I think it‘s a good time to let ‘em go, so I‘ll do that.

RA: Oh great. But anyway I think that whatever technology they were using to read the DNA could easily be, what… could be altered to create anything they wanted out of the DNA.

DW: Well, this is where you get into some of the really nefarious-sounding government experiments that have apparently been done with animal-human hybrids. And in fact there‘s enormous evidence of the Atlanteans having played around with this, with all the ancient legends of the Minotaur and mermaids and you know, like the half-goat / half-human, and the half-horse / half-human, and all these things.

Dr. RF: The legends with the Egyptian gods, with Anubis and Sekhmet.

DW: You got it. Totem poles are another example. I mean this stuff is not… these are not legends as much as they are accurate historical documentation of a bunch of DNA tinkering that was going on, using this energetic principle which the Cayce readings talked about extensively.

In fact, one of the things that Ra-Ta did is to use technology that he had available to take people that were part animal from these experiments and basically bring them back to a full human state.

They would actually surgically remove appendages like little wings that were coming out of peoples‘ shoulders, or something like that, and then they would basically tune them up DNA-wise to make them more fully ready to be human.

Dr. RF: You know, if any of you listening have seen the images of what an embryo goes through, the different evolutionary changes or however you want to refer to it as…

DW: Right.

Dr. RF: …you can understand how this can be tapped into for bringing out the desired result that you‘re trying to get.

DW: Absolutely.

RA: Well, David I‘m reminded of one of the lectures you gave. I don‘t remember which one it was, but you were showing the crop circles, the DNA crop circles?

DW: Right. Yeah.

RA: Where it went from DNA, and then it went to double DNA, double helix, and then to a triple DNA.

DW: A triple helix. Yeah.

RA: I can hear the music. Oh my gosh. I want to know how this triple helix ties into what you just said. And so folks, David‘s gonna answer this question when we get back.

[You‘re listening to Rumor Mill News on the Micro Effect Radio Network. Dr. Robin Falkov and I are having an amazing conversation with David Wilcock. Break – various advertisements 30:25]

RA: And you‘re listening to Rumor Mill News Radio on the Micro Effect Radio Network. This is Rayelan and Dr. Robin Falkov and I are here with David Wilcock.]

RA: And we were talking, when we left we were talking about DNA and I am hoping that David can segue this into a presentation that he gave where he brings up the crop circles.

Dr. RF: I was hoping that David could tie all of that together after he covers some research about very special raspberry experiments that were done by Burlakov, because this will tie in with the DNA and its changeable nature.

RA: Incredible.

Dr. RF: It‘s absolutely fascinating. It‘s something we need now. You know, we can‘t wait for this to…

DW: That‘s absolutely true.

RA: OK, David, let‘s hear about the raspberries.

DW: All right. Actually, Burlakov is the fish-egg experiment, but that‘s also a really important one. But we‘ll start with the raspberries.

Dr. RF: Budakovski. Sorry.

DW: Budakovski. Right. OK, here‘s the deal on Budakovski. Imagine now that you have a raspberry plant in front of you and you‘re looking at the branches of the plant. And what you see on some of the branches in certain cases is what‘s called a callus. This is a raspberry plant tumor. It‘s basically a cancerous growth on the raspberry plant. It‘s not on the berries itself usually, it‘s on the stem.

The stems of a raspberry plant, which you may or may not know, usually look red like the berries. These calluses are black. It actually looks like you took driveway tar and just glopped it onto the plant. It‘s really gross looking.

Now what this man, Budakovski, did — and that‘s B-U-D-A-K-O-V-S-K-I. This is back in the year 2000. He took a fragment, a cutting from a healthy raspberry plant and then used a red laser to create a hologram out of that raspberry plant cutting. He stored this image, which means that when you shine another laser into the holographic plate, you‘re going to see an image of this little raspberry plant cutting that he created. It‘s going to show up as a three-dimensional object.

Well, apparently not only do you get the hologram of the plant, but you‘re getting the DNA harmonics from the plant stored in the actual tissue as well. So in other words, the DNA harmonics from the original raspberry plant are in the hologram.

So what he did then is, he took this hologram from a healthy plant and shined it into this tumorous, nasty, black tarry-looking cancer cells on another plant, and it completely reverted that tumor back into a healthy raspberry plant that could be planted in the soil and sprout into a whole new plant. No sign of it ever having been cancerous tissue.

Now, think about the implications of this. We normally think of tumors as something you‘ve got to cut out of the body; they‘re no good. You know, there‘s nothing left you can do with ‘em except cut ‘em out and get rid of ‘em. Well, here he‘s actually taking a hologram, not even the real cells, and generating a total healing just off of the signature of DNA.

So then, the other one, the Burlakov that you mentioned, is also very significant. In that case you have a Russian scientist who took fertilized fish eggs and keeps them in two separate containers that were like – half between the containers. In some cases the fish eggs were brought together where one group of fish eggs is, let‘s say, ten days old, and the other is five days old, so they‘re pretty close to each other.

Maybe in another case he‘ll take eggs that are five days old and then take eggs that are 12 or 13 days old, so there‘s more of a difference. Now, again, I don‘t know what timelines are for the development of fish eggs. These could be skewed estimates, because we need to go back and look at the original papers some more.

The bottom line is that when you take fish eggs that are near to each other in development, the weaker eggs suddenly speed up in their growth rate and become comparable to the eggs on the other side. They actually speed up.

But when you take eggs that are weaker, meaning that they‘re younger, the eggs that are older will actually soak life energy out of the younger eggs, and the younger eggs will wither and die. And to me, that is the root of all Black Magic right there.

Dr. RF: Mm. Fascinating. And so, the life force…

RA: It‘s just amazing. I mean, what you just described is how many of these secret black magic cults and groups, how they work.

DW: Yes. Look at what happened with 9/11. You have all these people that are terrified of the idea that society is crumbling around them. And what we now know is that when you go into a state of fear you are…

This is how we prove this: When you go into a state of fear, your DNA sends out a very strong signal beacon into its environment to warn other organisms that there‘s danger. This goes back to the work of – why am I not thinking of his name? I interviewed him for my film, ah, he‘s a scientist who is a polygraph specialist. Cleve Baxter.

Dr. Cleve Baxter worked with the CIA to develop the polygraph methodology that we now use for lie-detector tests. So he‘s like the hot-shot of the field, basically.

And one day in 1968 he got this spontaneous idea to connect his – 1966, rather – to connect his polygraph to a plant. And when he did that, the plant started showing a remarkably human-like response — meaning that the amount of electrical activity going through those leaves on the plant was constantly fluctuating all the time, just like a real human being.

The only difference is that the human skin has this kind of like electromagnetic shielding effect that smoothes out the graph so it‘s a smoother curve, whereas the plant graph is very jagged because it doesn‘t have that extra fat to kind of shield the electromagnetic energy.

Anyway, his first big discovery was that he got the idea: “OK. If this plant is acting like a human being, then how am I going to shock it? ”

If you‘re giving somebody a polygraph exam and you want to prove that he committed murder, you ask him a bunch of kind of silly questions and then all of sudden you catch him off guard and you say: “Did you fire the shot that killed your wife? ” And you startle him. And he says: “No, of course not, ” you know, and then his polygraph is going ‘schszshch‘ [making scratching sound] and making all this crazy amount of activity. That‘s how you tell that he‘s lying, is that his electrical activity goes nuts.

So what he did with the plant is he says: “OK, how am I going to shock a plant? ” He tried a couple of different things. He tried dipping the leaves in the coffee cup and things like that. That didn‘t work. He finally gets the idea that he can take a match, strike it, and burn the leaf.

Now, pay very close attention to the sentence I just said. He got the idea. He didn‘t do it. He just thought about doing it. And he decided he was going to do it.

At that exact moment the plant goes completely crazy. The polygraph starts spiking wildly, and it continued to spike that crazily as he went and he got the leaf, and he actually did burn the leaf with the match. It didn‘t actually stop spiking until he took the matches out of the room and completely left the room.

So this was a remarkable experiment which was then replicated with many other things.

RA: When did he do this? What year?

DW: 1966.

RA: OK. Then he probably was the first that did it because in the early ‘80s this was all the information that was coming back from Russia, from the Russian psychic experiments.

DW: Yeah. Oh, it‘s been replicated many times. And I will say for the sake of the people who are fans of L. Ron Hubbard out there. L. Ron Hubbard did this with tomato plants about ten years before Baxter, so we have to give him credit for that. But Baxter took it a lot farther than Hubbard did and Baxter was not aware of Hubbard‘s research when he did this.

So Baxter took it into bacteria. He took it into animal cells. He even took human cells and wired  them up to a polygraph, from someone‘s own body. Then they left their cells in the lab and they went off somewhere else. Time and again what he found was, if your cells are sitting there in the lab and you go off into the field and something bad happens to you that makes you feel sudden fear or anger, your cells go through shock.

If he picked up a cat and the cat suddenly is startled out of being asleep, his African Violets were picking up on the shock of the cat. If he killed bacteria in his sink by pouring boiling water into the sink, then chicken eggs that he wired up to the polygraph would start screaming.

So what we start seeing is that when you go through fear or when you go through shock, you are releasing a huge burst of energy out into your environment, part of your natural biological makeup as an energy-being. You release a huge amount of your energy into the environment, which sets off an alarm signal in plants, bacteria, eggs, animals and other people. And this has been proven by Baxter‘s research and others like it.

So what that means is that if you are the person who creates a lot of fear… If you become the alpha male like the government did, like leaders did after 9/11, then all of that fear from the public gets directed towards you as the alpha male, and that gives you strength to fight on behalf of the tribe.

That‘s another natural instinct that we have. It‘s why, for example, at sporting events when you‘re the home team and you‘re playing a home game, the teams almost invariably do a lot better than if you‘re on an away game where you‘re not at your home stadium.

And of course there‘s the crowd noise, and as George Noory said when I was talking about this on his show, you may know the court for the sports in your home arena better than the court on another arena. But above a certain point it doesn‘t really make a whole lot of sense that all those other factors are only what‘s responsible for this remarkable statistical effect.

RA: What you are saying… I mean, we can just look at Pearl Harbor.

DW: Oh yeah.

RA: We can look at the Gulf of Tonkin, even. We can look at 9/11.

Dr. RF: That‘s what they‘re trying to do about 2012, to instill fear in everyone.

DW: Absolutely.

RA: OK, if people are trying to instill fear in them with 2012, what are they wanting to make us do? After 9/11 they joined the military and went to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.

DW: The negative elite are all about control and manipulation. But there‘s more than that. On the surface it appears that what you‘re dealing with… when you first get into conspiracy theory, it looks like what you‘re dealing with is people that want money, and power, and the sense of political power, and controlling the currency, and controlling groups of people, and being leaders.

That‘s only the surface. If you get into the black magic aspect of Illuminati, New World Order type of stuff, all that stuff is secondary to the greater quest, which is what they would consider a spiritual quest. It is a quest which is exemplified in the philosophy of deism, which is “Man becomes God. ”

Now you have to go back to the Great Pyramid and what it was actually designed for. In the Great Pyramid, in the King‘s Chamber is an open sarcophagus. It was designed for someone to lie down in the sarcophagus and be charged up by the natural energy from the Earth that the pyramid harnesses.

Now, this energy can be used to strengthen biology, to strengthen your vitality. But this is also the energy that‘s pushing our whole planet into ascension now, and it‘s causing us to have dramatically expanded visionary and psychic capability. Hence, that means if you get much more of this energy concentrated into you, then you will experience a sudden dramatic increase in your mystical, magical power, so to speak.

So the pyramid was originally built as a temple of initiation that would allow you to do this. Now the Cayce readings actually flagged “The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ ” as being an accurate book. That book was channeled, and it said that Jesus actually finished his initiation and became fully ascended by going into the pyramid, using this technology.

When you research the pyramid timeline — which is allegedly a series of messages given in the measurements of the passages inside the pyramid — there‘s some very, very precise predictions of future events that the pyramid spells out. But the most substantial event in the whole pyramid timeline is 33AD, which is, of course, Jesus‘ ascension. So the pyramid very clearly spells out that it was built for Jesus to use for that purpose.

And it also spells out that we‘re heading into some sort of major transformation. Because by the time you get to the end of the pyramid passages, you‘re back in the King‘s Chamber. And what it‘s telling us is that the entire planet gets dumped into this frequency, now, where you have the open sarcophagus and where everyone will be going through this energetic initiation where they‘re becoming magically activated.

So you have to understand, when it comes to these negative groups, their ultimate goal is metaphysical power — spiritual power — which allows them to do some degree of magical acts including, you know, invading peoples‘ minds if they‘re permeable for that. That‘s when, you know, you‘re in a lot of stress and fear. And there‘s others, you know. Telekinesis — there‘s another thing they might be able to do.

There‘s another discipline that they can do called time travel, where they will go back into some period in the past and occupy someone‘s body long enough to be able to use it to create events to happen. Then that person will just kind of… If they‘re sloppy, then that person will end up waking up somewhere different than where they fell asleep and not know how they got there, and not even realize they were essentially possessed by this other person from the future who was using them. Now, alleged whistleblowers from the Illuminati have said that they do this stuff.

So what you need to understand here is that the reason why they want to keep us all in fear all the time is that when we‘re releasing this energy, we‘re easy to be controlled. People are very susceptible when they‘re in fear. They‘re looking for guidance. They‘re looking for someone outside themselves who they can trust.

And more importantly they‘re releasing this energy of vitality which you can then harness as the alpha male, the person that they look up to, and use it for this magical work that you‘re doing. Because they do believe that they have become gods, that they are not mortals anymore, that they are divine beings amongst the sheep.

Dr. RF: And we can circumvent this if we encourage people to wake up and to take action and to participate in what‘s going on in their own immediate areas where they live, in government, in bigger areas, and to know that they have this power that has been so diligently repressed by the government.

DW: You‘re absolutely right. You‘re absolutely right.

Dr. RF: So how do we focus on this? How do we get this message across? I try to stress this every time I speak. And do you have any other ideas, anything that we can get the audience to implement and share with their friends and neighbors?

DW: Well sure. Now, you have to understand that what I‘m going to tell you is based on a spiritual philosophy which cannot be scientifically proven like some of the other data that I have been mentioning. I am liberally blending scientifically provable information with insider, whistle-blower testimony, and now in this case with spiritual philosophy which we cannot prove is true.

So when we can just have a mutual understanding that we‘re having a philosophical discussion on speculative material that I believe is true, but I can‘t prove is true, then I‘m happy to share my opinion.

Dr. RF: Please go ahead.

DW: OK. The material that I‘ve exposed myself to over the years has led me to a really profound – what I feel to be very profound — metaphysical realization about the whole nature of the game that we live in. And the bottom line that we start with to open up this area of inquiry is that the reality that is around us is an illusion. It is highly structured.

Nothing that happens in this world is by chance or random causality, including the presence of the Illuminati and the New World Order — which I consider to be opposing factions — the New World Order being the Rockefeller/Republican/Fundamentalist/Christian-Occultist faction; the Illuminati being the Rothschild/European/Luciferian faction.

The Rockefeller faction believe that they are in a battle against the Devil because they do not worship Lucifer like the Rothschild side does. And so what you actually have here is two groups, both of which are negative, both of which are using the same types of tools to fight each other.

In fact, I‘ve been told in my own readings for many years that the fact that these groups are fighting each other is precisely why neither of them will win, because they basically counter-balance each other and cancel each other out.

So you have to understand that within your own life, if you are a person who doesn‘t love yourself on an intrinsic level, it might sound wonderful to you if you would just attract people into your life who would love you unconditionally, so you would then just have this wonderful happy life.

But that‘s not the way spirituality really works. If you don‘t love yourself, then you have this big sign on your forehead psychically that says: “Come and beat me up. ” And you will find people who will gladly do that for you over and over and over again.

So when you‘re a person who doesn‘t love yourself, you will keep finding yourself getting wrapped up in relationships, family members, with bosses, with love affairs, with friends, and you‘re systematically being abused and denigrated and disrespected.

And you keep asking yourself: “What the heck is going on here? ” Ultimately when you grow up enough, either the person grows with you when you learn to respect yourself and have boundaries, or else the lesson is that you have to leave them behind and go on your path by yourself.

So you can imagine now that here‘s what‘s happening. It‘s basically the principle of mirrors. Metaphysically speaking, there‘s only one of us here. There is only one identity and that identity is the Universe. We have the apparent illusion that we are separate beings. That means that all of these people in the government and these negative groups are just manifestations of ourselves. On the Earth, we are a giant hall of mirrors.

And in our own individual lives we have all these shadow things that we are doing. Like, you know, infidelity for example, where we‘re saying that we‘re true to our spouse, but then behind their back we‘re going around having extra-marital affairs.

But then we smile at them and say: “Oh, you‘re the only one for me. I love you. I would never do that to you. ” And we somehow rationalize this because we say: “Well, my partner has pissed me off for so many years that they don‘t deserve my respect anymore and this is the only way I can stay alive and tolerate being in this marriage. And I‘m not going to tell him because if I tell him it‘s just going to turn into a disaster. So, you know, I better not say anything. Let me just go have some fun. ”

Well, so what we‘ve done is we keep all the secrecy. Another painful example, especially for women, is child molesters. Right? If you‘ve been molested as a kid, especially if it was incest by one of your parents or somebody in your family, they‘re not going to act like it happened. They‘re going to go on treating you as if you‘re a good little girl or good little boy, and they‘ll never talk about it. But yet somewhere in your mind you remember that they did this to you and you‘re horrified. But then they just say: “Oh well. No. I‘m a good person. ”

If you read Dale Carnegie‘s book, “How to Win Friends and Influence People, ” he talks about the interviews they did with death-row inmates and that over and over again, people that have committed heinous crimes, on death row will say: “No, I didn‘t do anything wrong. ” You know. And they‘re rationalize their behavior.

So, because we‘re all doing this on an individual level, we attract the collective equivalent of it on the Earth. People who meet in secret, people who put out smiling faces and act like there‘s nothing wrong and will lie to us and tell us exactly what we want to hear… and every political campaign is the new round of lies, the new round of promises that don‘t get kept. And behind the scenes, behind closed doors, there‘s very dark, very sinister occult things going on, like child molestation, like extra-marital sex, all that kind of stuff, and you never hear about it.

So what‘s happening now is we‘re discovering this on a planetary level. We‘re learning that this stuff is going on. And my understanding of the holographic nature of creation is that this is our projection to show us what we‘re doing in our own lives.

Now, most of us will never consciously realize this, but the world becomes our nightmare. The world is a projection of our dream. And when we see that our dream is a nightmare, when we see around us this type of injustice, when we see smiling faces on TV that we know are lying, that actually does subconsciously and to some degree consciously inspire us to not be that way in our own lives.

So now we‘re not going to molest our daughter. We‘re not going to cheat on our wives. We‘re not going to tell our friends that we‘re out for their best interests while, in fact, we‘re trying to manipulate them out of large sums of money because we don‘t feel that if they‘re not smart enough to tell the difference, then they don‘t deserve to keep the money.

There‘s lots of con men, lots of swindlers, lots of Bernie Madoff‘s on much smaller scales, people doing this kind of stuff all the time. And when they get disgusted with seeing it out there in the world, they get disgusted with those aspects of themselves and they learn not to do it.

And that‘s how the Universe heals these problems. You attract the very thing that you‘re creating so that you see it out there and by projection you heal it within yourself. So that‘s the over-arching principle.

I know we‘re probably getting close to another commercial break here.

RA: We‘ve got about two minutes.

DW: Ah, OK. So in terms of what I‘m saying the real core of this is? First of all, you have to understand you don‘t want to be in denial about what‘s going on in the world. It‘s a very useful exercise to educate yourself on all this stuff. And it‘s a useful exercise to tactfully and in a non-fear-based way let other people know what‘s going on.

Above and beyond that, we need to have the role of helping people have a spiritual renaissance within themselves, where their own level of moral and ethical conduct rises so that they in turn spread that message to others.

We then will no longer need to recreate the projection of our shadow. And as this happens, as we heal collectively as a society, these groups will crumble into dust and will not have any ability to stay secret — which is now happening.

There was a major hearing just the other day which is going to lead, most likely, to the stripping of the Federal Reserve of all its power. Bernanke was brought before Congress and was confronted with the fact that the Fed has spent somewhere in the neighborhood of ten trillion dollars in the midst of all this stuff going on with TARP.

Everybody‘s eye is focused on $780 billion, while in the meantime the Federal Reserve, with no government oversight whatsoever, has spent somewhere around ten trillion of taxpayer money.

RA: Oh my gosh, David. I have never heard about this. And you can hear the music. And if I‘ve never heard about it, you know that it‘s buried deeply in the mainstream media. So please tell us more about it on the other side of the break.

[Folks you‘re listening to Rumor Mill News Radio on the micro effect radio network. Dr. Robin Falkov and I are here talking with David Wilcock. And we will be back. Music. Four to five minutes of advertisements.]


David Wilcock

Rumor Mill News Radio

Interview with Rayelan Allan

February 13, 2009

Part 3


RA: This is Rumor Mill News Radio on the Micro Effect Radio Network. Dr. Robin Falkov and I are here today talking with David Wilcock and he just told me something that even I, as the publisher of Rumor Mill News, who sees every rumor in the world, I didn‘t know this. David, you said that Bernanke was grilled before Congress and it looks to you like the Federal Reserve is on its way out?

DW: Yes. The last Congressman to speak before Bernanke starts getting questioned is named Paul, Ron Paul.

RA: Oh my gosh.

DW: And he tears into the Federal Reserve. And this is after, like, three other Congressmen tear into the Federal Reserve and they‘re basically saying that there‘s this — and this is really funny too — it‘s statute 13.3. Okay? And I‘m sure Richard Hogan will love that number.

RA: [laughs]

DW: Statute 13.3 in the Federal Reserve Act from 1913, when it was first created, specifies that in cases of emergency they can allocate funds without oversight, however they choose. And so there‘s a three-hour video that you can see on C-Span.

What you need to look for if you want to find this in terms of the hearing number on the C-Span website, I think you can find it with this — and I‘ll give you the link afterwards — but it‘s HP-A-15283. And you can probably Google it on C-Span. Look for Bernanke. It‘s like a three-hour and fifteen-minute video. It‘s huge.

But the point is, right from the beginning that these senators are coming out and saying, you know, that the Federal Reserve has this massive amount of leverage and it has misappropriated somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 trillion dollars. We don‘t know where it went. And then they basically call Bernanke out and he has to defend what they‘re doing in front of Congress. This goes on for three hours. So you can watch this video online.

RA: This is amazing. It‘s sort of like, what in the world were they distracting us with in all the press media, on all the internet web pages and in the media, that people like me missed this?

DW: Well, a good magician is going to have you look at his hand where he‘s pointing to something in the crowd while the other hand is reaching into his pocket.

RA: And you know we just had a plane crash last night.

DW: I know.

RA: And all of the, you know, all of the talking heads are covering the plane crash, and it turns out that the only 9/11 widow — that refused to go along with their, you know, take the money and don‘t ask questions scheme that they forced all of the survivors of the 9/11 tragedy to sign and take this money — she was on that plane.

DW: Get out of here. I didn‘t hear that!

RA: Yeah. Why, it‘s on Rumor Mill News!

DW: [laughs]

RA: [laughs] And anyways…

DW: I‘ll have to see the documentation on that but I do believe you, I‘m sure. You know.

RA: Yeah, anyway, what I can‘t believe is — or what I don‘t know is — what in the world were they covering with that plane crash? And not only what were they covering but because this woman was on it, all of the conspiracy theorists are going to feel she was the reason they brought the plane down, whereas I believe they‘re hiding something.

Something is going on that if all of us investigators weren‘t paying attention to this woman who was killed in this plane crash, we might be able to find it.

DW: One of the most “useful ” reasons — and I put useful in quotations marks indicating the level of sarcasm these people have — one of the most “useful ” reasons for creating this kind of thing is simply a distraction. You know…

RA: That‘s all it is.

DW: They‘re desperate to try to get people‘s eye off of the real problem. If they can divert people to a humanitarian tragedy to get them away from focusing on the real issue, which, you know, I would say that Congress wanting to rip the Federal Reserve apart and basically start… I mean, I would say that where this could be leading is the creation of Treasury Notes rather than Federal Reserve Notes.

RA: And Rumor Mill News has been predicting simultaneous parallel banking as we go from the Federal Reserve into Treasury Notes. We‘ve been predicting that for two years now.

DW: Really.

RA: And that is what it looks like is happening.

DW: Well, these senators are totally transparent. That‘s exactly what they‘re saying. They‘re basically saying: “The Federal Reserve did a good job. We thank you for what you‘ve done. But this particular code 13.3 has been abused and it‘s gotta stop. We‘re gonna need to basically manage you guys and oversee you guys. You‘re not going to be able to move money around without us seeing exactly what you‘re doing. ”

And Ron Paul just completely rips into ‘em saying that they haven‘t even told us how much money they‘re printing. The M3 money supply has been hidden for two years.

RA: Yeah. Exactly.

DW: So all this stuff, all these people that have been reading your site and my site and all the conspiracy sites out there and everything else, they‘ve all been behind Ron Paul. And many of them have been upset about the new administration, thinking it‘s more of the same thing.

It‘s not the same thing. These things are happening. Ron Paul was the biggest voice to get his point made in this hearing. And yeah, you‘re not gonna see the media cover this because there‘s a deep collusion between mainstream media, corporations, military, and government.

And these guys have had a major hat-trick pulled on ‘em. They‘re extremely racist. Both the Illuminati and the New World Order are extremely racist, especially towards black people. They would not have anointed a black man to be their spokesperson. In fact, they were so confident in the racism of the average American person, especially the Republican base, you know, throughout the Deep South, that they were completely surprised.

You know, the best estimate… I mean, McCain was like the guaranteed candidate because he‘s this amazing war hero who was tortured but never gave in to the enemy. And, you know, when the economy started to collapse you would say, “Well, you can‘t have some new guy who doesn‘t know anything taking care of this. You‘ve got to have people that are experienced and know what to do. ” You know.

So this is the article that I‘ve prepared in conjunction with this appearance. It‘ll be on my website explaining to people.

Now, again, if you want to hate on Obama, that‘s fine. If you want to send me hate mail, that‘s fine — but I have been given a very consistent picture of intuitive information telling me that this presidency is going to define the turning-point between the Era of Fear and the Era of Awakening. And I think that if Obama didn‘t follow through with his campaign promises, the public has now gotten so activated that those campaign promises will be demanded anyway.

We are in a very unique period. Both of you guys, I know you both agree with me on this – it‘s a shame that so many people that are writing about this stuff don‘t see that these groups do not need to be feared anymore.

They are so exposed. Everything is out in the open. Millions and millions and millions of people know what‘s going on. It‘s only going to be a matter of time before all this stuff is mainstream, there‘s no more secrets, and everything is rooted out and gutted.

Let‘s look no further than what just happened in this past week. This has been an amazing week where you have the CEOs of some of the top Illuminati Wall Street firms — Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, on down the list — being dragged in front of Congress like little children being spanked, and told, “What the hell are you doing giving yourself these billion dollar bonuses? Give us the money back. ”

Now, you have to understand, in the Masonic Order once you get above the Royal Arch-Mason level, which is seventh degree, you swear that you will protect all fellow Masons against all recrimination for anything they do, including murder and treason. You will protect them from harm.

And when you see… even in the 1800s with the book “The Character, Claims, and Practical Workings of Freemasonry ” by Reverend C. G. Finney, he was exposing the Masonic Order back then. It was common knowledge to people in the conspiracy circles of the day that the Masonic Order had penetrated the justice system — the judges were Masons. The police commissioners were Masons. The lawyers were Masons. The government figures were Masons.

So it‘s like everybody‘s in on it and nobody in the power elite ever has to be accountable for anything they do. Well, that is breaking down left and right.

You have in this past week alone a wonderful video that I‘m gonna link to in my article on — Representative Gary Ackerman from New York ripping the SEC apart, scolding them like little children, like an angry father yelling at his kids saying, “What the hell were you doing? You were supposed to be protecting us. Madoff was so obviously a Ponzi scheme. You knew this for 10 years. You didn‘t do anything. You looked the other way. Well obviously because they‘re all protecting each other. ”

RA: Or because Madoff is some covert CIA or Mossad or something like that. One of the things I have thought… Gosh, I‘ve got so many thoughts on what you just said! But the Bernie Madoff — I was absolutely certain that he was a Mossad agent, you know, trying to earn the money.

You know, it‘s one of these off-the-shelf, stand-alone, self-financing men that all of the intel agencies have — hidden all around the world, you know — to make money for their covert operatives. And so I thought that he was a Mossad agent. Well, I just had it confirmed from one of my sources that, no, it‘s a CIA operation.

DW: Hmm.

RA: And now the CIA is the only intel that is under the control of the City of London Bankers, you know, the Federal Reserve people that…

DW: Correct.

RA: …own all the corporations…

DW: Rothschild faction. Yeah.

RA: …and newspapers and all of that.

DW: Yeah.

RA: Well, the CIA, because it‘s based in the United States, every now and then they get red-blooded American patriots in it. And so the CIA is very divided. There‘s the New World Order side of the CIA and then there is the opposition to the New World Order side.

DW: Right.

RA: And so we don‘t know which side Madoff was working for, but he was taking down all of the charities that gave the money to the Mossad so the Mossad could run wild here in the United States.

DW: Interesting. Interesting.

RA: And so that‘s what I know about it. And, my gosh, you‘ve just said so many things in everything that you said…

DW: Well, conspiracy theory is a huge labyrinth and you can never really know enough to know the whole thing. It‘s so complicated that even the people who are in it don‘t know the whole thing.

RA: Well, it‘s because that the compartmentalization…

DW: Exactly.

RA: …that they worked so hard to get. I mean without the compartmentalization, you know, they wouldn‘t be able to keep their secrets, let‘s put it this way.

That‘s the one thing that I think I explained to you. My husband was at such a high level, not just at the CIA but of the worldwide group that has been fighting the New World Order for the last 100 or more years that I have been able to have a worldwide view of it. It‘s not deep. You know, it‘s very shallow. But I see, you know, I can sort of see how the things are being put together.

And what you have said about the Federal Reserve fits in with what I‘ve been telling my readers for the last 15 years. There has been an active operation run out of the CIA and intelligence agencies all around the world to take down the Federal Reserve by bankrupting them.

DW: Yeah! And let‘s not kid ourselves, the Bush-Neocon-New World Order faction, the Rockefeller faction, want to do the same thing. That‘s why they were the first people to start doing the bailout. And of course half the money disappeared in the TARP thing…

RA: Oh my God. It has!

DW: …because they‘re socking it away for 2012.

RA: And you know, I just keep having this feeling, you know, like right at the moment we see almost a trillion dollars of our tax money going down the well in this stimulus bill that has been passed.

But I just keep having the feeling that one day Barack Obama will come up and he will say, “Federal Reserve bankers have robbed us blind. We have tossed them out of the country. We‘ve seized all of their assets and I want you to know that we are a wealthy country. ”

I keep praying that he will be able to say this. And I want to introduce Dr. Robin Falkov who is back with us on her own telephone line.

Dr. RF: Thank you, Rayelan. [laughs] I hope this is sounding better.

RA: Yes.

Dr. RF: It is absolutely fascinating from my perspective. I‘ve watched Ron Paul for the past 13 years and when he came on my radar I wasn‘t that politically aware before. But this man is an example of someone who lives by example. He has not changed his position from where he has been all along. He knows what is right and what is wrong and he doesn‘t back down for anybody.

RA: You know, consistency is one way to judge anyone — consistency.

DW: Yep.

RA: And anyone that‘s on the internet, that‘s the way you have to judge people who are on the internet. Are they saying one thing today, six months later they‘re espousing something differently? And so Ron Paul is, you know, a shining example of that consistency and David Wilcock is too.

Dr. RF: Yes.

DW: Yeah, I‘ve been online since 1998, so it‘s been a decade, and I have continually been saying the same things. I just keep refining my presentation, but all the points are the same.

RA: One of the things that I was going to remind our readers of… we found an e-mail address for the White House that really gets in there.

DW: Oh really?

RA: It‘s comments C-O-M-M-E-N-T-S I think that everybody listening to this show should put in an e-mail and just say, “End the Federal Reserve. Buy out the Federal Reserve. Use your clause in the original contract to buy out the Federal Reserve. ”

If we could get millions upon millions upon millions of emails going in, or phone calls going in, they would know that the American public understands the Federal Reserve.

DW: Well, they‘ve just had congressional hearings in which they‘re being called on the carpet by Ron Paul and others for blowing 10 trillion dollars of your money.

Dr. RF: So they need the support of everybody in this country, starting with our audience and everyone that will spread the word.

DW: Right, because the media isn‘t gonna publish this story.

RA: Well, the Federal Reserve owns the media.

DW: Exactly.

RA: It‘s just little radio networks like this one. The Federal Reserve doesn‘t give us any money! Of course they don‘t. But, boy, you don‘t hear this kind of information being discussed. Have you ever heard Rush Limbaugh talk about it or Sean Hannity talk about it?

DW: Oh gosh.

RA: Or Michael Savage talk about it? No way!! And I‘ve never heard it on Air America either. So, [laughs] the guys that own the Federal Reserve… If it‘s the Illuminati, I don‘t know what they are. I don‘t even know if they‘re human. Have you every figured out if they‘re human, David?

DW: Well, the Rothschild faction is the Luciferian philosophy at the core. And so what they do is they use… you know, anybody above the 33rd degree level of Masonry on that side of the fence uses this thing called Palladian Rite, in which they become what they call the Glove of Lucifer.

This literally means that they‘re channeling demonic entities. So some people — like the David Icke types — have spoken with people who have psychic sensitivity, and these psychics have seen what appear to be reptilian-type spiritual overlays on these people.

Now, that does not mean that they‘re actually any different than you and me or that they‘re shape-shifting creatures as much as, in my opinion, it means that they are perhaps telepathically interacting with some other form of humanoid who is actually running the show and kind of guiding them.

In other words, the Rothschilds seem like they have a lot of power on the Earth but they‘re really just the lackeys of these higher dimensional beings that are really controlling them and treating them like dirt.

RA: And you know exactly…

Dr. RF: You‘re saying it‘s an energetic link that they have?

RA: Yes.

DW: Yes.

Dr. RF: And that‘s something that I‘ve tried to get my readers to understand, that the Rothschilds are just literally the slaves of these people.

DW: Yes.

Dr. RF: And the Queen of England is the slave of the Rothschilds. And then all the rest of us are the slaves of the IRS, which is… I mean, that‘s their task master. That‘s how they beat us into submission.

DW: It was interesting, when you see the original interview between so-called Joe the Plumber and Barack Obama? One of the things that Joe the Plumber asked Barack Obama was what about abolishing the IRS and the income tax?

RA: Uh huh.

DW: And you remember what Obama said?

Dr. RF: I thought he said, “That‘s a good idea. ”

DW: He said, “We looked into it and we found that it would make products so expensive that we weren‘t convinced it was the best idea. But we certainly were looking into it. ”

So they have really been actively thinking about how do we bring this whole thing down? How do we change the whole game? How do we get rid of all the corruption? And what‘s the best way to go about doing that? And I really do see this congressional hearing is an amazing thing.

We need all these guys out there who love to make their little political videos on their home computers — Go to C-Span. Get this video HP-A-15283. We‘re going to give you the links on my website Just click on the link. You‘ll be able to watch the video excerpts, chunks from it. Put it onto your own videos.

Because we need people to realize that the bailout money looks like a lot, but it‘s not even 10% of what the Federal Reserve has been throwing around without anybody governing them or deciding how they use it. And I do think that we‘re going to see this whole thing get pulled apart. It‘s happening right now.

RA: David, one of the things that Richard Hoagland and I both have been seeing, and we‘ve really just seen it in symbols. The symbols that the Obama campaign was sending…

DW: Uh huh.

RA: …I called the opposition to the New World Order Faction Two and there are many of us on Rumor Mill News who have seen Faction Two behind Barack Obama.

And, of course, Richard sees Obama as, you know, possibly a candidate of the African Mystery School. You probably know more about what Richard sees than I do, but both of us have been tuning into Obama and going, “Hey, there‘s something there! ” There‘s something there other than what the rest of the world is seeing.

DW: Yeah, and there‘s a lot to say on that point. I think one of the most intrinsic principles is that… I just want to state, first of all, that I have been approached by both factions to some degree — more the Illuminati than the Rockefeller faction — but both factions have tried to recruit me in the past.

RA: I can believe that.

DW: And I‘ve spoken to Black Op whistleblowers who work for both factions. So, you know… and you can‘t necessarily trust what they tell you. Richard and I were just having an animated discussion about this last night. You can‘t necessarily trust what they say, and I get that.

Dr. RF: The lie is different at every level. [laughs]

DW: Right. But the point is that I am not a member of any of these groups and I never have been, and if they offer me, then I turn them down.

That being said, I do believe… Like you said, Faction Two — when you say that, you‘re meaning that it‘s not the Illuminati and it‘s not the Rockefeller New World Order.

And I do believe that there has been an on-going tradition, a grain of truth, in which the positive aspect of ancient Mystery School Teachings has been preserved. And these guys are still active and I think that they have come forward and they are endorsing Obama‘s candidacy. And so…

RA: And, David, think about who you are, as Ra-Ta, the creator of the Mystery Schools.

DW: Yeah, I‘m the big daddy. [laughs]

RA: See what I‘m saying? And I‘ll make you a bet you and Richard never discussed this, as who you were in the past.

DW: Richard is admittedly not very comfortable with the Edgar Cayce story. He feels it detracts from my public presentation to go into it and he has reason to believe that. I think for the average person it‘s not an easy thing to swallow. And he feels that if I focus on the scientific aspect more, that I‘m going to gain greater credibility and…

RA: You know, I hate to tell you this, but the reason that I have not gone public with all of my wild stories except when Robin interviewed me [laughs] this Monday, is because all of my closest friends have said, “No. If you tell that side of you, nobody‘s going to believe anything that you say. ”

Dr. RF: Well, then they‘re able to attack the messenger more easily. It gives them more ammunition.

DW: Right.

RA: What Gunther told me is if ever I‘m not around to protect you, make yourself so incredible that you become un-credible. They would rather destroy people‘s reputation…

DW: True.

RA: …than kill them.

DW: You‘re much, much safer by putting out information that you could be discredited with than by only having information that can‘t be discredited.

RA: Uh huh.

DW: In other words, you know, publicity is protection. And it‘s a lot cheaper for them to ridicule you than to set up a fake suicide and make it look like you killed yourself.

RA: Exactly. One of the reasons Rumor Mill News is called Rumor Mill News is for this very reason.

DW: [laughs]

RA: I mean, if I called it The Investigative Report people would think, “Oh my God, this stuff is really serious. ” But they say Rumor Mill News.

DW: I like that. You‘ve cloaked yourself nicely.

RA: Yes. That‘s exactly what we did and there was a plan. There was a method to that madness. [laughs]

DW: [laughs] I‘m anticipating break music any second. That‘s why I‘m not talking.

RA: How did you guess? You read my mind. The break music is coming up. And, David, I would like to get in to how you are seeing everything that we discussed, including the end of the Federal Reserve.

DW: Sure.

RA: If possible, can you tie this in to what you see happening in 2012?

DW: Absolutely.

RA: Folks, I apologize, we are not going to be taking questions. There‘s just simply too much for David to cover. Dr. Robin Falkov and I are here taking with David Wilcock and we will be right back. And we are going to tell you what is coming in 2012.

RA: And welcome back to and remember our disclaimer that you can find at the bottom of “Rumor Mill news stories are presented as entertainment only. Any similarity to real news stories in only in the minds of the readers, the writers and the publisher of Rumor Mill News. ”

Welcome back, Dr. Robin Falkov and David Wilcock. And we ended with me saying can we take all of the information that we have put together so far about the DNA, about the Federal Reserve — And I know it‘s all tied into 2012, but I don‘t know how. David, do you know how?

DW: Sure.

RA: Please tell us.

DW: I want to be sensitive to your listeners who have not necessarily heard me speak before and kind of finish out some of the 2012 scientific case, in its grosser outlines, in terms of the data that we‘ve already shared in how it all ties in.

RA: Exactly.

DW: So, let‘s start with the fact that we are seeing the entire solar system experiencing climate change, much like what we now see on the Earth with global warming. Global warming is doing some wild stuff. The people in Australia have really been suffering from those fires they‘ve had. And somebody e-mailed me recently and was begging me to talk about this because it‘s a serious tragedy. Did you guys see the picture of the koala who was being given the water bottle?

Dr. RF: Yes.

RA: Yeah.

DW: Yeah.

Dr. RF: So touching.

DW: Well, you know, the thing that the e-mailer told me is that the koala is actually a very dangerous creature. I mean, they look cute and cuddly but they have claws and they‘re very aggressive. And so, for a wild koala to be that buddy-buddy with a human being is unprecedented.

Dr. RF: But why are they so aggressive? Is it because they‘re so, you know, so many people trying to capture them?

DW: Could be. Yeah. I mean, I think certainly there are cases of domestic koalas we‘ve all seen in zoos were they‘re very nice to you and they‘ll hug you and stuff. But the wild ones, yeah, they‘re very defensive.

So we‘re dealing now with a situation where the Earth changes are becoming increasingly obvious. We‘re having an enormous amount of rain right now in LA, which is very unusual. So I‘m actually watching the climate change in my window as I‘m talking to you guys. It‘s pouring.

RA: I was just about to tell everybody that I thought a hurricane was coming in a few minutes ago. The wind and the rain was so heavy here in central California.

DW: Yeah. So this is stuff that‘s going on all over the place. We‘re dealing with ever-increasing amounts of changes, and some of these changes absolutely cannot be attributed to fossil fuel emissions and the typical global warming climate change model.

It becomes even more obvious when you start looking at all the data from mainstream NASA scientists showing the same changes that we see on the Earth occurring all through the solar system. This means, in practical terms, that it appears what‘s causing this is that the solar system is moving in to a zone of higher energy in the galaxy.

I have some interesting phenomenal research going all the way back to a series of books that were published by George Hunt Williamson in the 1950s, including “Other Tongues – Other Flesh ”, another one called “The Saucers Speak ”, another one called “Road in the Sky ”, in which he is allegedly communicating with extra terrestrials.

They‘re telling him that our solar system is moving into a higher zone of energy in the galaxy, that we would end up seeing dramatic changes in the sun and in all the planets. And that it would ultimately lead to this renaissance in culture and consciousness on Earth akin to a dimensional shift.

Now, some of these books, you can clearly get them on Amazon and see publication dates of, like, 1957, and this is way before any of these climate change effects in the solar system were so obvious.

So, when you get a prophesy in advance that comes true, that‘s when you start to get the sense that there‘s something credible going on here.

So the next point that we need to establish is, if the solar system is doing this — and again, I don‘t have time to explain all the details right now — but all of the planets are getting hotter. They‘re getting brighter. The magnetic fields are increasing. There‘s more turbulence, like on our planet with all the extra weather activity. There‘s more clouds. There‘s atmospheric disturbances. All that stuff is occurring all throughout the solar system.

Then you have to go into the historical record and say, “Okay. Is there any evidence that this climate change could be doing something to the life on the planet? Is there any evidence that life on the planet in any way is affected by these energetic shifts in the solar system? ”  — because we‘re clearly seeing an energetic increase in the charge.

Well, now you bring in Dr. Robert Rohde, R-O-H-D-E, and doctors Raup, R-A-U-P, and Sepkoski, S-E-P-K-O-S-K-I. Respectively, they have discovered a 62-million-year cycle and a 26-million-year cycle in the fossil records.

Raup and Sepkoski originally created this data-set. They were from the University of Chicago, paleontologists. These are marine fossils — over 3,600 different genres of creatures. And what they found was that there was a 26-million-year cycle in which all the creatures would essentially remain unchanged. Then all of a sudden, bang, they would all evolve and they would turn into new creatures.

Well now, I want you to think back to what we were talking about in the first hour — the DNA science. I want you to think back to the frog and salamander experiment we were talking about, and the duck and chicken experiment we were talking about. Right?

What did that tell us? It told us that DNA is a frequency that‘s around us in the air and in the cosmos, and that our own DNA is like a jigsaw puzzle that can rearrange into more than one solution. So you can take the information from a salamander and beam it into a frog and the frog‘s eggs will turn into a salamander‘s eggs.

You can take the hologram of a healthy raspberry plant and zap it into a cancerous tumor that we normally would think just needs to be removed, and the tumor turns into a healthy plant.

So all you have to do is have the light frequency of DNA to get the effect to happen. But when it comes to the solar system, as we penetrate into these areas of greater energetic frequency in the galaxy, in these even intervals of time, they actually upgrade life on Earth.

When you look to 65 million years ago, the time of the last major mass evolution/extinction event — because of course some species have to die in order for others to be born, or in other cases what you actually have is that the babies of the creatures on the Earth simply evolve in to different things.

And that‘s why the other thing that puzzles everybody when they study this is that some of these mass evolution events don‘t have any cataclysms on the Earth at all.

But nonetheless, when you do go back and look to 65 million years ago, scientists have gone back and looked at the planetary orbits and concluded there was a so-called chaotic realignment of all the planet‘s orbits.

Everything 65 million years ago in the solar system suddenly jostled around, which strongly suggests that interplanetary climate change is correlated with these cycles of mass evolution.

So if that‘s true, then what that means is that the galaxy is putting out waves of energy that are expanding away from the center in even intervals of time. I have scientific means to establish the existence of these frequencies in the microwave spectrum. You can actually measure them.

This scientist, Dr. William Tifft, studied the microwave frequencies of galaxies and found that they‘re striated like the layers in an onion. And those microwave frequencies give you the signature of where these energy fields are as they expand.

They expand into our solar system as they travel in even intervals of time – the most recent being the 26-million-year interval – and they charge up the solar system, causing the interplanetary climate change we‘re now seeing, and they advance and upgrade DNA. So you ultimately lead to an evolution and you lead to new species forming.

Well, if you only think about evolution in this sense as being biological, then you‘ve missed the point. Because what the ancients understood is if you put somebody in one of these pyramids or if you build a standing stone or a stone tower in Ireland, it‘s harnessing this energy from the Earth that actually — based on Russian pyramid science experiments we‘ve seen — will, in fact, create massive healing of cancer, massive healing of diabetes, any disease condition you can imagine.

They will make you feel younger. They will make you feel stronger and they initiate you spiritually and raise your vibration, giving you mystical ability and psychic functions that you never would have had before.

So I‘m getting hundreds and hundreds of e-mails a week from people having crazy visionary experiences and wild things that they never would have expected before because they‘re all experiencing this evolution.

So the universe allows you to pursue your evolution on one of two paths, either negative or positive. The negative path is these world elites who have inherited as I‘ve said the Sibylline prophesy of the New World Order. They believe there is a Golden Age coming and they believe that they‘re going to force it into being by taking over the world and creating this New World Order dictatorship.

It‘s a very, very narrow-minded interpretation of prophesy, with very little knowledge of what‘s really happening here.

The positive side of things is that even though there‘s these guys out there using black magic, trying to keep you in fear so that you can be docile and submissive, and keep you in anger — because actually if you‘re angry at them, you‘re also releasing energy to startle everyone else too — and they can harness that as well.

So it‘s very important on a metaphysical principle to understand that if you hate these people, if you‘re angry at these people, if you‘re afraid of these people, then you are playing into their agenda.

There‘s a famous quote from Hitler that says: “We do not want their allegiance. All we want is their fear. ” Because, believe it or not, as many of you listeners already know, Hitler‘s group was very into the occult and they were very keen on this occult science and how to use this energy for their own purposes.

So on the positive side, the entire solar system is spiraling into a new zone of energy in the galaxy that is activating your consciousness. It is leading to a dramatic shift of the dream that is this hologram of human civilization on the planet.

We‘ve been living in a mass dream which has been showing us scarcity, that we don‘t have enough money, that we don‘t have enough resources, that the weather isn‘t cooperating, that the economy isn‘t cooperating, that there‘s evil people in the government. And this has been our dream because it‘s a reflection of ourselves.

So we‘re now being led through a massive planetary healing. Now, whether or not 2012 literally corresponds to a dimensional shift or not is a subject of another debate. We can do other shows about that later.

But for now what I would encourage people to recognize is that with this knowledge of the torsion field science that I‘m describing, we already have the power to actually manifest the fulfillment of the 2012 prophesy even if nothing happens — because the fulfillment of the prophecy will come in the sovereignty of the human being, the freedom to govern as we see fit, with open ethical boundaries.

I had a prophecy that I published online that Obama was going to release the government‘s budget into an internet website where you can click down into it and see everything. And you can go to and that‘s exactly what they‘re doing now.

They‘re gonna put the entire budget online so that there‘s no secrets, everything can be audited, everything can be studied by anyone. Just like in the Reformation, the Bible became available for everyone to read and it wasn‘t keep locked up in the priesthood anymore.

That‘s what they‘re gonna do with the Federal Reserve. These guys can‘t go and move 10 trillion dollars around anymore without us knowing where it‘s going because it‘s our money. So, all of these changes are in the support of a positive beneficial change of society.

And when you look at what I call The Meditation Effect, where you have 7,000 people that get together in transcendental meditation gatherings, and they meditate in a group, and what you then see is a 72% reduction in global terrorist and crime and war activity all over the planet — you‘re seeing how we all have a collective power to be able to focus our energies for the purposes of healing the planet.

Now, we can do that with our consciousness, but it‘s also happening automatically by this energy shift in the solar system that can be measured. It‘s the same energy shift that creates the change between the salamander and the frog eggs in the experiment, the same energy change that upgrades the eggs in the chicken‘s womb into duck-hens when they hatch.

It‘s the same energy change that can take the tumor cancer cells on the raspberry plant and create an entirely new healthy raspberry plant out of that.

It‘s the same energy change that is the flow of life, the vitality that will bring us to the next level of evolution.

Now, that‘s the biological case. That‘s what we can put our finger on and prove. Whether or not it‘s a dimensional shift, whether or not we literally will have a transmutation into a light body type of thing, we can‘t say for sure. I will say that my own readings and my own evidence suggests that we are dealing with a profound discontinuous energy shift.

And a lot of the material that we get from these Black Ops projects of which, Rayelan, when you were talking to me privately, you were describing experiencing some portal travel yourself — going from point A to point B through some sort of jump-gate or jump-room.

RA: Jump-window is what it was.

DW: Right. So that technology really does exist. I do believe that and your testimony just adds to what I‘ve already heard from others who I feel to be credible. But if…

RA: And it‘s amazing because I really haven‘t ever told the story like I told it to you. It‘s on the internet. I mean it‘s been there for, you know, since ‘98 probably, but not fleshed out like I did with you. And it makes me think it‘s time for me to maybe even do a radio show and tell the whole story.

DW: Well. Yeah. I spent six hours prying it out you on the phone. [laughs]

Dr. RF: I think it would be great for David to interview you on that subject.

RA: Oh my God. What an incredible idea.

DW: Well, we‘ve already been planning that, but yeah.

RA: You and Robin have been planning that?

DW: No, no. You and I planned it. I mean I already told you I‘d like to see this testimony get videotaped and released.

RA: Oh yes. Yes, you did.

DW: Yeah.

RA: That would be great because, David, you were so good at asking questions that literally allowed me to retrieve some of the things that happened that I had forgotten…

DW: Right.

RA: …but were actually there. And you know, David, there‘s an other extraordinary story that I will have to share with you some day and it‘s about going back into the past to convince an entire race of intelligent beings that they had to die.

DW: Wow.

RA: If they did not die and give up their bodies, the civilization that we now know would never exist.

DW: Wow.

RA: There would be no humans. There would have been no Pythagoras. There would have been no Greek mathematicians and philosophers, because those beings were too happy on the little island where they were, running around as half man, half deer.

DW: Interesting.

RA: Yes.

DW: There‘s so much out there to know and I have a friend… Everybody has a little piece.

RA: Uh huh.

DW: I have a housemate who had a family member who knew someone who was very high ranking in the CIA. And this person would never tell him anything. This guy in the CIA, finally on his deathbed, a family member goes up to him and says, “Well, you‘ve always alluded to the fact that you know something, that there‘s a whole lot going on that we don‘t know. So please, you‘re about to die, will you please give us some kind of information? ”

Now, of course, he knows if he tells him too much that‘s tangible truth, they could all be killed.

RA: Right.

DW: You can‘t say very much. But this is what he said, and this is just one guy who‘s just my housemate who heard it directly from the family member who was sitting there with the guy when he‘s dying. He says, “All I can tell you is this. Everything you have ever seen in any science fiction movie is real and much, much more. ”

Like … oh my god! [laughs]

RA: I believe it. I believe it. You know one of the movies that came out back in the ‘80s was a movie called “Energy Vampire ”. It was done by a film company that I actually worked for. I worked for them as a script consultant. And it was about these monsters from outer space sucking out our energy.

DW: Yeah.

RA: Not our lifeblood, our energy. And that‘s exactly what you were describing about how the New World Order, they whip us up into fear and they live — it‘s almost like it‘s their food — they live off it.

DW: Yeah. That‘s absolutely true. They feed on fear and anger.

Dr. RF: And we can…

DW: And George Lucas was revealing that in “Star Wars ”. Remember the scene with the Emperor when Luke is getting all angry and he says, “Good, good. Feel your hate. ”

RA: [laughs] Yes, I‘d forgotten all about that.

DW: [laughs]

Dr. RF: It‘s a very, very… a much-used tactic to push someone so then they‘re out of control.

DW: Well, and George Lucas was working with Joseph Campbell who, Rayelan, you confirmed to me that you asked him and he said he was part of Faction Two.

RA: Yes.

DW: So there you go.

RA: So well, I didn‘t ask him. It came up later, after I had done that interview with him.

DW: Right. And again, Faction Two is the middle of the road group that‘s not negative but has access to some of these compartmentalized projects.

It‘s way too simple-minded for people to think that everybody who‘s on the inside is evil, or everybody who‘s in a compartmentalized project is the bad guy. Some of these people are good guys.

They very much would like to see this stuff get out in the open, but they just don‘t really think humanity is ready yet and they‘ve been actively working to try to condition us. I think Spielberg‘s gotten in on it, too. Did you see the last Indiana Jones movie? My God!

RA: I did see it. Oh my God! Yes!

DW: [laughs]

RA: Everybody, you‘ve got to go see this. You‘ve got to see that final scene inside the cave.

DW: It‘s incredible.

RA: Where all of these skeletons are reanimated and do…

DW: Well, yeah. It‘s “Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull ” but the thing is the crystal skull is an ET skull. And the whole point is that ancient astronauts basically founded our civilization.

RA: David, I‘ve got three questions…

DW: Okay.

RA: …that have come in from our listeners. And one is – I don‘t exactly understand this – but in 2012 there‘s a 26,000-light-year distance and it‘s close to the 26,000 year precession of the Equinoxes. And what he is wondering is, could this mean that in fifth dimensional hyperspace would we receive the same emanations that are currently resonating in present time?

And the question is, in the same time as what was sent out 26,000 years ago, traveling at a constant speed of light in fourth dimensional linear time? In other words are present and past going to be coexisting together?

DW: Well, rather than getting into the technical thing which we don‘t have time to do, let me just say this: Because you are dealing with the fact that time is actually nonlinear, there‘s a realm in which all time is three dimensional and you can access any point in the timeline you want just by traveling physical distance. It is utterly true that Atlantis has not yet sank. Atlantis has not yet fallen and what… America is the projection of Atlantis.

RA: Right.

DW: And we‘re a holographic duplicate of it, so what we do now actually has retro-causality into the past. So that is absolutely true, and it‘s been explained to me in quite some detail in my own readings.

RA: Oh. Extraordinary. Okay. The next question: Are you aware of the stargate that is supposedly being opened right now in the Gulf of Aden, which is where all the major countries, all the navies of all the major countries in the world, are over there on the pretext of controlling pirates?

DW: Richard and I were talking about the satellite crash the other day, just yesterday, and we‘re wondering if this is some kind of insider symbol saying, “Okay, now is the time to really jump into high gear. ”

It would appear that, you know, these guys for example, don‘t necessarily think 2012 is the end of the line. They think that it‘s just the most likely time, but it could happen before then. So I‘ve heard from other whistleblowers that 2009 is when their plans are really going to kick in.

I would not at all be surprised if a lot of these guys, especially the ones who are the most fearful, will start this year figuring out ways to get themselves off the planet and get somewhere that they think will be safe, which is kind of an oxymoron but… ‘Cause, you know, the energy change is going to happen through the whole solar system, so… [laughs]

RA: Well, exactly. I wonder if it‘s going to happen through the… it‘s in our solar system. Is it in the galaxy? Is it in the larger universe?

DW: Well, if you travel through intergalactic space and you go into one of these other time domains, it‘s going to very profoundly affect your physical and spiritual being as it is. So, there‘s really nowhere you can go. You‘re going to experience this.

RA: Now, you know, one of the things in my book “The Obergon Chronicles ” that it talks about, that, you know, we‘re getting to a point where the classrooms are changing and when all sorts of learning has been done. It‘s sort of like when you‘ve graduated every single kindergartener that needs to go to kindergarten, are you going to need that kindergarten room anymore? No. You‘ve got to turn it in to the laboratory for the PhD scientists now.

DW: Right.

RA: Because there aren‘t any more kindergarteners. And that‘s how I‘m looking at 2012.

DW: Yeah. Look at the overwhelming preponderance of ancient prophesies from every religious and spiritual tradition in human history that describe the conditions we‘re seeing right now — the social breakdowns, the global warming and all that stuff — and invariably say that it leads to a Golden Age on Earth.

RA: Absolutely.

DW: If you get too tied up in Judeo-Christian prophecy, they don‘t realize there‘s many others that say all this stuff. But they consistently focus on the positive.

Dr. RF: A very interesting point, a Golden Age on Earth, and those who are so busy getting ready to leave it, they won‘t be able to come back.

DW: Absolutely.

RA: Well, David, I just got an invitation for you to join our Micro Effect Radio Network. So if you‘re at all interested in having your own radio show, I‘ll put you in touch with a guy that can make it happen for us.

And we are just at the end of our show. Oh my gosh, David, it has been so exciting for me to have you as a guest. And I really do hope you‘re serious that you will come back as soon as possible.

DW: Yeah. This was fun.

RA: And, folks, this is Rayelan Allan. Dr. Robin Falkov and I have been talking with David Wilcock and he has been an absolutely amazing guest. Make sure that you get to his You will be lost in that site for weeks and weeks and weeks, I assure you.

DW: That‘s true.

Dr. RF: And for those in Los Angeles, I hope they go see him at Conscious Life.

RA: Yes, if you‘re in LA — Conscious Life.

Dr. RF: This weekend.

RA: He‘s got the information on his website also. And, folks, I will be back. We‘ll see you on Monday, same time, same place.



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I am very glad to be back in good health and about to set off on this magnificent weekend adventure. Community is always fun, and the need for us to pull together as a group will undoubtedly make for a better experience for everyone!